Let's talk about "plot", "story", and "play to find out."

[Fenris-77]

So what I'm hearing is that if you don't enjoy RPGs the same way you do, then you shouldn't be playing your RPG, or possibly any RPG?

I think you're hearing things. No one is interested in your ongoing defense of your particular tastes in RPGs. You're looking for offense, and, surprise, you find some. Sigh.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Please name the RPG that aligns the decision process of player and character, does not abstact the game world, and allows one to make play decisions without regard to the mechanics.

It's obviously a matter of degree, and then personal taste. Expecting those things not to exist at all is not realistic, but it doesn't have to go as far as some games take it. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good IMO.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think you're hearing things. No one is interested in your ongoing defense of your particular tastes in RPGs. You're looking for offense, and, surprise, you find some. Sigh.

I think you're letting the fact you largely agree with @hawkeyefan to color your opinion of those who don't. We're all allowed to express our feelings here.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think you're letting the fact you largely agree with @hawkeyefan to color your opinion of those who don't. We're all allowed to express our feelings here.

No, I'm not, but your suggestion that I am fits perfectly with the rest of the participation here. You don't even like play to find out games, yet here you are shouting about how this and that break your immersion or don't match your tastes. Whatever man. We're talking about the games and how they work and you're talking about ... well, something else.

I'd love to hear you opinion of how the various elements of play to find out type games relate to the idea of story, if you ever decide to post abotu the actual thread topic.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It is about whether the decision process of the player and character are aligned. More abstracted, disassociated, mechanics create divergence in the decision spaces, and if these mechanics are also complex, then the gameplay becomes more about gaming the mechanics than about the fiction. Which is not even necessarily always a bad thing, more a matter of taste, but it is pretty much opposite of "fiction first."

Yes, I understand your stance. I don’t agree with it at all. I fee like you choose to find conflict where I don’t think such conflict exists. You seem to not want to engage with the rules of the game… that somehow doing so disturbs your enjoyment of the game.

It leaves me wondering how you enjoy RPGs at all.

So what I'm hearing is that if you don't enjoy RPGs the same way you do, then you shouldn't be playing your RPG, or possibly any RPG?

My point is that if rules of a game disturb your enjoyment of the game, then I’m not sure why you’d choose to play that game.

Let’s say someone complained that they didn’t like to roll funny looking dice. Are you gonna recommend to them to try D&D?

I fee like the rejection of game mechanics being put forth is as fundamentally incompatible with RPG play as an aversion to dice would be.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, I understand your stance. I don’t agree with it at all. I fee like you choose to find conflict where I don’t think such conflict exists. You seem to not want to engage with the rules of the game… that somehow doing so disturbs your enjoyment of the game.

It leaves me wondering how you enjoy RPGs at all.



My point is that if rules of a game disturb your enjoyment of the game, then I’m not sure why you’d choose to play that game.

Let’s say someone complained that they didn’t like to roll funny looking dice. Are you gonna recommend to them to try D&D?

I fee like the rejection of game mechanics being put forth is as fundamentally incompatible with RPG play as an aversion to dice would be.

So...yes? That stance seems rather judgemental, and indeed disparaging to those who don't share your preferences.

I see no value in further engagement with you.

 

[hawkeyefan]

So...yes? That stance seems rather judgemental, and indeed disparaging to those who don't share your preferences.

I see no value in further engagement with you.

It’s not a judgment. It’s an expression of bewilderment.

But sure… find offense in it and complain about that perceived offense when we’re talking about games you don’t even like.

 

[Fenris-77]

A game that might bring some interesting discussion here is His Majesty the Worm. It's very specifically a mythic underworld dungeon crawling game, with all the resource management that entails, but it also has a lot of more story related elements both in its use of the tarot deck as the core randomizing tool and in some of the character mechanics.