D&D 5E Let's talk about Witches

[steeldragons]

Having worked on and wondered about this for some time...it can go any number of ways, as I've noticed for many/most things in 5e.

You say in the OP witch's aren't really about study or research, and by way of that, aren't really suited to a wizard subclass. Two things on this:
1) They absolutely are about learning their craft...whether it is from other witches/a coven, an extradimensional patron, familiar spirit, standard mentor/teacher-apprentice relationship or whatever. This at least implies "study" if not outright "research."
2) While all of the wizard subclasses we have in the PHB are the historic "Schools" of Magic as presented in D&D...the actual subclasses archetypes for wizards are listed as "Traditions." Choosing a Tradition of Witchcraft to learn and study, increasing your power the more you learn and study (and, obviosuly, as with all classes, use) your powers, strikes me as a completely plausible subclass for the Wizard.

More apparently, as others have noted, a Druid (or even Cleric) subclass is equally plausible. My potential homebrew Druid subclass, "Circle of the Green", is in the works even as we speak. A suit of "Domain/Circle" spells could easily allow a druid some arcane magic spells to handle the more wizardly magics of traditional witches...btw, @Elfcrusher , "Gaseous Form"? How about just Flight?

I've also considered/started poking at a full class with subclasses all its own. The variety of source material and possible character concepts certainly makes a full class (with a minimum of 3 subclasses) possible.

I could see, eschewing all but the lighter armors and martial weapons, a Bard subclass very easily. The White Witch of the "Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe" (particularly as portrayed in the movie) comes to mind immediately. Also things like "Cutting Words" and "Viscious Mockery" strike me as eminently [folkloric] "witchy."

Someone mentioned witch as a background, and now that's [yet another] avenue (for any spellcasting class) buzzing around my brain that I could definitely see working, too. Throw in a Familiar as a feat if you want/think that's a necessary part of the archetype. [Great, something else for me to work on. Thanks a lot for that!]

So, yeah, I could totally see any variety of subclasses easily possible...before ever even touching a full class. So, to the question, is a full class "necessary"? No. If you have the concept space/reason for existence in your game-setting/world, then go for it!

 

[mellored]

It depends on the mechanics.

If it's just another caster with the usual spell slots, then no need for a new class.
Either a druid with appropriate spells, and a sub-class (circle of the spirits) for brewing potions.
Or a new warlock pact (spirit pact).
Possibly both.

If there's some new fancy curse mechanics involved, then sure, new class.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yes, I agree about the study/research. I was contrasting the "bookish" research I associate with Wizards to..."tinkering" research of Witches. Yes, and knowledge sharing within a coven.

My main opposition to it being a Wizard subclass is that I'd like to limit direct damage and replace it with indirect damage, so I wouldn't want to simply add more spells on top of all the ones that Wizards have access to.

I think I need to study the spell lists; maybe simply banning Evocation spells would (mostly) solve it.

EDIT: What do y'all think of that last bit? I was just looking at the spell lists (via my online spell index: http://salty-ridge-7989.herokuapp.com/ ) and without Evocation spells it really changes the flavor of Wizard and opens up some design space.

Maybe make it, "You have Disadvantage on all Attack rolls with Evocation spells, and enemies get Advantage on Saving Throws versus your Evocation spells."

Then they could be compensated by getting some spells from other casters' lists. E.g.,
Cantrips: Produce Flame, Vicious Mockery
1st: Bane, Hex
2nd: Augury, Heat Metal
3rd: Spirit Guardians, Speak with Dead
Etc.

I'd also like to tweak the rules for spellbooks, and for learning spells via scrolls or captured spellbooks. Doesn't feel Witch-like. Not sure exactly how to do that, though.

 

[MechaPilot]

[MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION]

Steeldragons' mention of flight reminded me of something that may help you. In my personal campaign setting, arcane casters can fly on brooms as witches are often depicted as doing. As long as you have spell points left (I use points instead of slots), you can fly on a broom that you are attuned to. If you don't have spell points left, you have exhausted too much of your magic to be able to fly.

However, that does open up the "flight" can of worms. I don't consider flight to be overpowered, especially when other casters can fly and when there are large flying beasts that can be trained to be mounts, but those who do (not sure if you do or not) would probably be a bit squeamish about simply giving flight as an ability.

 

[Guest 6801328]

[MENTION=6801328]Elfcrusher[/MENTION]

Steeldragons' mention of flight reminded me of something that may help you. In my personal campaign setting, arcane casters can fly on brooms as witches are often depicted as doing. As long as you have spell points left (I use points instead of slots), you can fly on a broom that you are attuned to. If you don't have spell points left, you have exhausted too much of your magic to be able to fly.

However, that does open up the "flight" can of worms. I don't consider flight to be overpowered, especially when other casters can fly and when there are large flying beasts that can be trained to be mounts, but those who do (not sure if you do or not) would probably be a bit squeamish about simply giving flight as an ability.

Even as I was typing "gaseous form" in the o.p. I was thinking that I have to address brooms and flying. Mostly because of the can of worms you mention.

But I like your houserule as a possible feature of a Witch sub-class.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I dunno, I find the idea that all witches use brooms to be a sweeping generalization.

 

[MechaPilot]

Even as I was typing "gaseous form" in the o.p. I was thinking that I have to address brooms and flying. Mostly because of the can of worms you mention.

But I like your houserule as a possible feature of a Witch sub-class.

If you want to make it more of a balancing feature, you could tie it to having at least one spell slot of a given level. For example, what if the witch had to keep at least one spell slot of her highest level (or her second highest level) to retain her flight ability? That creates more of a decision about whether to use powerful magic and be unable to fly, or to use weaker magic, perhaps while flying.

 

[77IM]

Hermit Archfey Warlock with pact of the Tome and a lot of ritual spells (including find familiar). Or Hermit or Outlander Wizard, probably Divination or Transmutation tradition.

 

[Mistwell]

I feel like a Witch needs a lot of access to rituals also.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Definitely check Druid spell lists.

Consider potions being an ability to distil spells such as enhance ability and lesser restoration into potable, portable form.

Potentially allow a broom to be imbued with a modified Gust of Wind that allows the rider to travel...

Or an alternate subclass. Coven of the Moon allows a familiar to be summoned according to wild shape CR ratings instead of wild shape ability with a scalable power as you level inc ability to trance and astral self into familiar as you level up higher?

Coven of the Land is a spell casty subclass but at 5th level a broom can be acquired which allows travel as if powered by gust of wind (60'/round, or c.6.8mph). Use the spell slot rule from above - number of spell slots equate to amount of time flying is possible (1 hour per 1st, 2 per 2nd, etc).

Away from books and enjoying a Friday drink, but could it work, o people with more clue than I?