Let's Talk Blue Rose

[MoogleEmpMog]

It sounds more and more like D20 Conan is what you are looking for. The magic system is very CoC.

Yeah, Conan is the "Core" of my homebrew system. I just prefer class defense to dodge/parry and allow a much greater variety of classes. And I'm always hunting for new systems to cannibalize and assimilate.

Blue Rose may be next... its resistance is futile.

 

[Skywalker]

Correct me if I am wrong, however the damage save system and the max skill ranks system are very similar (if not identical) to two optional rules in Unearthed Arcana correct?

On the surface yes. However, things are quite different when more closely examined.

The damage save in Unearth Arcana is actually based on the one from Mutants and Masterminds, an RPG done by the same guys who do Blue Rose.

1. It doesn't use the Fortitude Save but a new save called Toughness. Statistically the Toughness Save works a little better than the Fortitude Save which was not designed for damage saves.

2. Damage Saves were originally designed to be used in line with Hero Points, or Conviction in Blue Rose. These are points that can be spent to increase the Toughness Save roll. Without them, the UA version is much more lethal and arbitrary.

3. The damage conditions in BR are a little better spread than the all or nothing approach of the UA variation.

As for the skill system, BR uses the concept of Favoured and Known in replacement of Class and Skill points. As with Damage Saves the result is that BR's system is a little smoother, especially in combination with the three open classes and reduced number of skills used in BR.

 

[Skywalker]

[*]Expanding the uses of the social skills. Gather Information and Intimidate get the best treatment too. It's very interesting that the more active skills: listen and spot, hide and move silently, were folded into more generalized skills while the social skills were not. I've been wanting to have notice and sneak for a long time, but after looking at the skill in BR I want to merge bluff and diplomacy into one skill.

The difference I see is that Spot/Listen and Hide/Move Silently will generally be taken together as they fit under the same concept and difficult to seperate. In general, someone is perceptive or not or someone is stealthy or not. Though one may be higher than the other it is generally not that important in the overall concept, so they can be bundled together.

However, with Bluff and Diplomacy, there are many times where one will be suitable to a concept but not the other. Rogues are good with Bluff and not Diplomacy. Nobles are good (generally) with Diplomacy and not Bluff. Sure, some have both but to me the distinction is more likely to split a concept than with "aware" or "stealthy".

What I wanted to see is that with Balance and Tumble being wrapped into Acrobatics that Jump, Climb and Swim should have been wrapped together under Athletics.

 

[GreatLemur]

I've been watching the development of Blue Rose for a while, and I'm horribly conflicted about the whole thing. The mechanics sound absolutely sublime--almost exactly what I've wanted to see d20 evolve towards--but the default setting is so obnoxious that I don't know if I could bear to buy the book.

Still, I just might be able to buy it as a PDF file, instead.

 

[Skywalker]

I've been watching the development of Blue Rose for a while, and I'm horribly conflicted about the whole thing. The mechanics sound absolutely sublime--almost exactly what I've wanted to see d20 evolve towards--but the default setting is so obnoxious that I don't know if I could bear to buy the book.

First off, as has been said before, at maximum there is only 40 pages dedicated to the setting, not adding in the trade dress. For a core rulebook the book is remarkably considerate to be full of flavour whilst allowing a reader to take as much and as little as one likes.

Second, the setting is a matter of taste. However, I think calling it "obnoxious" is a little far, unless you are an extreme conservative. It is unlikely to cause harm, be offensive or promote evil (the normal meaning of obnoxious) amongst most RPGers YMMV.

The setting is one where the primary country is a tolerant one, one to look up to. I find this to be a breath of fresh air in what has become a sea of similar dark fantasy settings with medieval ideals. Aldea may not be exactly my cup of tea but I admire the setting none the less and can recognise that it is well done. At the very least it isn't hard to give a slightly different focus to get something more GRR Martin, Jordan, Lewis, Keyes or Le Guin

 

[Emiricol]

Obnoxious. Hmmm.... well, some folks of a particular stripe might think it so. Whatever. I just view it as "doesn't work well for me."

But anyway. Hey Crothian, etc - if a PC has Favored Skill for a couple levels then takes another class (Adept to Expert, for example), does the Favored Skill drop in rank? How does this work for multiclass PCs? (Apologies if this is answered in the book - I've not delved *too* deeply into it yet).

 

[GreatLemur]

Second, the setting is a matter of taste. However, I think calling it "obnoxious" is a little far, unless you are an extreme conservative. It is unlikely to cause harm, be offensive or promote evil (the normal meaning of obnoxious) amongst most RPGers YMMV.

The setting is one where the primary country is a tolerant one, one to look up to. I find this to be a breath of fresh air in what has become a sea of similar dark fantasy settings with medieval ideals.

I think we're using different definitions of "obnoxious," here. I'm not morally offended by Aldea, I'm aesthetically irritated by it.

It's certainly nice to see settings that aren't relentlessly, retardedly darkity-dark-dark, but when major concepts in a setting are named things like "the Golden Hart" and "the Blue Rose Scepter," and the words "Light" and "Shadow" are explicitly given moral implications, and then the goddamned psychic cats show up . . . well, at about that point I start rolling my eyes so badly that I can no longer see.

I love Steve Kenson's work, but the Blue Rose fluff makes me want to use quite a few uncharitable words in addition to obnoxious, such as "pandering," "insulting," "hackneyed," and others. It makes my teeth ache.

Sorry to rant. I really do wish the game well, and will probably buy it myself. It's just that the designers set out to work in an idiom that I already cannot stand, and managed to exaggerate that idiom to near-parody levels in the process.

 

[Henry]

I love Steve Kenson's work, but the Blue Rose fluff makes me want to use quite a few uncharitable words in addition to obnoxious,

On the other hand, their target audience is probably in love with it. There's a whole other side to fantasy than the Conan "blood and iron" or the Tolkien "epic longing and sacrifice" take, and it appeals to a lot of folks. With a little luck, some people who aren't normally role-players will be attracted by friends who DO roleplay who tell them about this game. Whether they're questing for "The Staff of Gar'duok" or "The Blue Rose Scepter", they're roleplaying, which is what I like seeing.

 

[Aaron2]

if a PC has Favored Skill for a couple levels then takes another class (Adept to Expert, for example), does the Favored Skill drop in rank? How does this work for multiclass PCs? (Apologies if this is answered in the book - I've not delved *too* deeply into it yet).

The skill never drops. When a character gets a new class, he gains one new Known skill if the new class has fewer known skills (forex an Expert taking a level in Warrior) or he gains two know skills if the new class has more (forex: A Warrior taking a level in Expert). If the new class has more favored skills, the character gets one per level until he reaches the new number. If the new class has less favored skills, he gets nothing. Its kinda wonky.


Aaron

 

[Crothian]

Sorry to rant. I really do wish the game well, and will probably buy it myself. It's just that the designers set out to work in an idiom that I already cannot stand, and managed to exaggerate that idiom to near-parody levels in the process.

THe book does not hit you over the head with the setting. In fact, while the stuff is there it can easily be removed. If you don't want the animal races, don't use them. The book is just so well put togther that not a lot of this is tied together, Blue Rose is not a house of cards waiting to fall down. I want to try the system out with Thieves World, and if you know that setting it is about as anti Blue Rose as you can get. But the rules will work for it.