D&D 5E Level 20 Class Competition Ideas

[DND_Reborn]

If I had to take a martial it would probably be an Eldritch Knight simply because between access to 4 levels of Wizard spells and Fighter ASIs they are the most customizable martial available.

That or Arcane Trickster or Monk. Again, Arcane Trickster, for the same reason (having some spells and an extra ASI).

A flying monk (insane speed) that wins initiative (not likely with portent, but still possible) could be trouble.

 

[Asisreo]

That or Arcane Trickster or Monk. Again, Arcane Trickster, for the same reason (having some spells and an extra ASI).

A flying monk (insane speed) that wins initiative (not likely with portent, but still possible) could be trouble.

An Arcane Shot Drow fighter might be a good answer to something like the flying Wizard. If they take the Drow High Magic feat, they can dispel Invulnerability. If the wizard "disappears," the fighter can Seeking Arrow and know their location.

A shadow arrow can cutoff most spells from a wizard. I still don't really advocate for fighter winning, though. I just hope you don't underestimate them.

 

[Hohige]

Portent or no, Diviner or not, if you are up against the majority of full spellcasters and can cast Feeblemind, you SHOULD be casting Feeblemind. Feeblemind is 100% balanced for this being a team game where when you fail the save your teammates can keep you safe until your buddy with the Greater Restoration or Wish can fix you up, or else it is you using it against a big bad with legendary resistances. In high level dueling a spell without (practicable) ongoing saving throws that requires a very rare saving throw that most spellcasters suck at and reduces spellcasters to little more than impotent beasts is just laughably broken. Having Portent just makes it usually a guaranteed win rather than an overwhelming statistical chance of winning.

let's be honest.
The only spell that can really threaten is Feeblemind.
To beat the Wizard, just counter this spell.
The sorcerer is much more powerful with metamagic.
Damage harder, with greater range, can cast spells as a bonus action and still have access to cleric spells.
Also, always wins a counterspell battle.

Counter it and It's over.
There are several ways to counter this, with or without Portent.

 

[DND_Reborn]

An Arcane Shot Drow fighter might be a good answer to something like the flying Wizard. If they take the Drow High Magic feat, they can dispel Invulnerability. If the wizard "disappears," the fighter can Seeking Arrow and know their location.

A shadow arrow can cutoff most spells from a wizard. I still don't really advocate for fighter winning, though. I just hope you don't underestimate them.

Again, different builds can counter different wizard approaches, but with 25 prepared spells and possible magic items, a single wizard can be ready for a multitude of opponent builds. That is one of their strengths.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

let's be honest.
The only spell that can really threaten is Feeblemind.
To beat the Wizard, just counter this spell.

All sorts of spells threaten everyone, and folk with d6 hit die especially, be they Sorcerer or Wizard. But even if Feeblemind was the only thing that could utterly wreck a Sorcerer, it is still a one shot defeat that any Bard, Druid, or Wizard built for level 20 dueling should be throwing at them.

As for countering it, someone not being able to counter your Subtle Counterspell only matters if your Subtle Counterspell works in the first place. The odds of a 20 Charisma Sorcerer even successfully counterspelling an 8th level spell without using their own 8th or 9th level slots is only 40%, and you can't Counterspell it if it is cast from between 61 and 150 feet away.

I'm not saying Sorcerer isn't a strong option, I'm just saying that a Sorcerer's whole strategy against any class that can cast Feeblemind is going to have to revolve around avoiding ever letting the other side get a single hostile spell off against them until they are sure the enemy has used up the two appropriate spell slots.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Yeah. If you use the rules in XGtE (which I don't in this case), you have no way of learning what spell is being cast before countering it, since the rule in there makes identifying a spell being cast require your reaction.

And even if you did know what it was, that would only tell you its minimum level, not its actual level.

I don't think counterspell is as reliable of a solution as it's being touted as.

How about we start finalizing some rules so we can start these matches up and put the dice where the texts are?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

An Arcane Shot Drow fighter might be a good answer to something like the flying Wizard. If they take the Drow High Magic feat, they can dispel Invulnerability. If the wizard "disappears," the fighter can Seeking Arrow and know their location.

A shadow arrow can cutoff most spells from a wizard. I still don't really advocate for fighter winning, though. I just hope you don't underestimate them.

I was tempted to make an Arcane Archer for the competition just to prove that they would be more viable than people expect.

Now a Purple Dragon Knight on the other hand...

 

[Hohige]

All sorts of spells threaten everyone, and folk with d6 hit die especially, be they Sorcerer or Wizard. But even if Feeblemind was the only thing that could utterly wreck a Sorcerer, it is still a one shot defeat that any Bard, Druid, or Wizard built for level 20 dueling should be throwing at them.

As for countering it, someone not being able to counter your Subtle Counterspell only matters if your Subtle Counterspell works in the first place. The odds of a 20 Charisma Sorcerer even successfully counterspelling an 8th level spell without using their own 8th or 9th level slots is only 40%, and you can't Counterspell it if it is cast from between 61 and 150 feet away.

I'm not saying Sorcerer isn't a strong option, I'm just saying that a Sorcerer's whole strategy against any class that can cast they are sure the enemy has used up the two appropriate spell slots.

Basically no, wizard spells can trully threaten a guy that heals 210 hp in a single turn that has 200 hp. Well It's Divine Soul Sorcerer.

Utterly wreck a Sorcerer. OK?

Counter

1) Subtle Counterspell is the simpliest, but depends of range.

2) Resilient feat (Inteligente) + Headband of Intelect (19 Inteligente, uncommon) + Favored of the Gods (+2d4 save divine soul, average +5) + Ring of Protection (+1 save rare) + Stone of lucky (+1 save, uncommon) .
It's +17 inteligence saving throw against DC 18
Even with 1 on dice, The Sorcerer wins.

Remember portent is 3d20, average dice is 5, 10 and 15. Expending the lowest dice to force the sorcerer to lose initiative. That is not yet guaranteed, because the wizard can still roll less than 5 on dice.

. So, It's 10 and 15 portent dices. Well...

3) Staff of charming, It completely counter feeblemind combining it with the counter 2. The feeblemind spell returns against the original caster. Good lucky.

4) Long range battle, the Sorcerer hits at 620 feet x 150ft wizard. Well, we know what happens here.

5) You must see, both portent and feeblemind spell require see the target.
But the sorcerer can stay 16h on extended etherealness spell, allowing him to set your position whatever he wants, back up to counter 1 and 4


There is 100% chance to defeat the Wizard.

 

[Helldritch]

And you'd suck against another type of caster. Man, you keep changing the stats, feats and magic items. Mine is only one built, against any character type. Your build is supposed to shut down a wizard and it won't. Imagine then how it will fare against another class with mage killer. You assume that you will react, you won't. It's as simple as that.

 

[Hohige]

And you'd suck against another type of caster. Man, you keep changing the stats, feats and magic items. Mine is only one built, against any character type. Your build is supposed to shut down a wizard and it won't. Imagine then how it will fare against another class with mage killer. You assume that you will react, you won't. It's as simple as that.

No other spellcaster could challenge the Divine Soul Sorcerer and his metamagic. Lets be honest