Level 20 commoners?

[Storyteller01]

+8, as I said. Whether that means 5 ranks + 3 Wis, or 8 ranks + 4 Wis - 4 for physical problems, or whatever is what you'll need to figure out yourself; I just wanted to point you in the right direction.

Works for me

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What's the city in the Epic Level Handbook again? Bet there's quite a few level 20 commoners running around that place.

"Hi, I'm Urggell the Smelly, level 20 beggar! Put gold in me cup an' I'll tell you an epic rumor!"

 

[Fingol]

Just a small question why would a person, assuming that they had no choice but to become a first level commoner (by birth, parental training, etc...) take another level in it? Why not pick any other class?

If you want combat useless NPCs with high skills why not just hike their skills up arbitrarily? Which is just as arbitrary as creating 20th level commoners....

Once you have got 20th level commoners in your world what then? What are you gonna do with them? Have you got an evil group you are DMing for that you want to surprise the next time they ride into the village and demand free beer and loving?

 

[shilsen]

I thought their CR was level - 1, like for Warriors.

Technically yes, but that stops making sense really quick.

A Com4 is not a challenge comparable to an ogre.

What Darkness said. I've found that a good rule of thumb for CR calculations for the NPC classes is to put the CR for commoners and experts at 1/2 of class level, and for the adept/aristocrat/warrior at 3/4 of class level.

 

[Jdvn1]

What Darkness said. I've found that a good rule of thumb for CR calculations for the NPC classes is to put the CR for commoners and experts at 1/2 of class level, and for the adept/aristocrat/warrior at 3/4 of class level.

Well, that might have something due to the fact that people don't give NPC classes items appropriate to their level.

At least, I've never seen a Com20 with a +5 Holy Flaming Burst Bastard Sword.

 

[Darkness]

Well, that might have something due to the fact that people don't give NPC classes items appropriate to their level.

Nope.

A Com4 with a +1 longspear and +1 studded leather armor is nowhere near an ogre. Try it out if you want to see it for yourself.

It gets worse and worse the higher the level is, too. A Com11 is way less of a challenge than a Ftr10 with the same gear value. It's not even funny.

 

[Buttercup]

"She was once a commoner like yourselves. But I think you will not find her common, now."

-Hyp.

You called?

 

[Jdvn1]

Nope.

A Com4 with a +1 longspear and +1 studded leather armor is nowhere near an ogre. Try it out if you want to see it for yourself.

It gets worse and worse the higher the level is, too. A Com11 is way less of a challenge than a Ftr10 with the same gear value. It's not even funny.

But maybe not way less of a challenge than a Bard.

And, anyway, 20 levels in a class rarely stacks up to a CR 20 creature. Or even a CR 19 creature. But the CR system works in a funny way, doesn't it?

I wouldn't say that the level - 1 thing is accurate, because I've never tested it. But 1/2? You think a Com20 is at a disadvantage against a Ftr10? Or a Pal10?

 

[CronoDekar]

The Sharn sourcebook contains a Lv17 commoner. Basically, she's an old elf who's dedicated her entire life to becoming a master cook.

IMO, high-level commoners wouldn't be especially common, but they would be especially good at what they do (unlike an expert though, they would have an extremely narrow field of abilities given their 2+int skill points/lv). They would be more common among the older-lived races and would all probably be mostly old, and probably have natural skills in their profession. Even more so than others, they probably particularly value hard work, and few days would pass by when they didn't work in perfecting their craft. And of course, they'd probably have to love engaging in their craft. Even still, these are exceptional individuals (just not exceptional adventurerers).

How much gold they get is really up to you. Do you want them to be mostly unknown and out in the middle of nowhere? Then you can get away with not giving them much. Do you want them to be owners of a globally known business? Then it'd make more sense for them to have the starting gold. As for CR, that'd depend partially on how much treasure they have (and, as noted, the standard rule for NPC CRs doesn't work well for commoners), so you'd probably just have to wing it. Don't worry too much about how the EXP system works -- just assume that they acquire levels differently from PCs and they're so good simply because of their extremely hard work and excellent innate abilities.

What would motivate a commoner who reached that level of awesomeness? Reaching an even higher level of awesomeness. There's always more problems to deal with, or new breads to make. If you want to, you can even have them aim for epic level, though certainly give them appropriate feats (Epic Skill Focus is always good). But as for why they'd join together? Well... that's really up to you. I personally wouldn't make commoners of such a high level common (no pun intended) in my game, so I can't see them meeting often, if ever. Perhaps a particularly rich aristocrat is seeking out servants who are the best of the best? Or there's a very special race/society that generates highly skilled people?

 

[Staffan]

The Sharn sourcebook mentions a 17th (or so) level commoner. She's an elf, pretty old, and about the best darn chef in the world. She's also one of the councilors of the city, and according to the stats Keith Baker reasoned out in the big thread over at the WOTC boards she has some skills relevant to that as well, but mainly she's the best darn chef you're likely to hear about.