D&D 5E Level 20 Gameplay

[Yaarel]

Hell just make it the capstone for a level 20 wizard, that's what they did way back in the day. It was a 9th level spell, but you had to be a max level wizard to get it....so basically a level 10 spell.

Wizard − and also other fullcasters.

Psion − Wish is mind over matter, the ability to will reality into existence. It is the purest form of psionics.

Cleric − Wish is miracle.

Bard − Wish is the songs of creation that brought the multiverse into existence.

Druid − Wish is shaping the essence of nature itself.

And so on.

Any class whose spells can actually reach slot 10, can find Wish on its spell list.

 

[tglassy]

The only thing about Wish is that screwing with player’s Wish seems cheap to me. “Oh, just fast forward then to a time when the bad guy is dead, ahyuk.” Gigax spent so much time in 2e in the description of Wish explaining ways to screw it up it’s unreal.

If that’s going to be the case, why even bother having it in the game? Let it be a Wish. Just, you know, you have to roll a d6 afterwards. Rolled a 1 or 2? Can’t do it anymore.

But what I did worked great, cause it lets them have their Wish. One character is a Dragon Sorcerer, so her Wish was to be a full Dragon. So I gave her the ability to cast True Polymorph once a day to only become an Adult Blue Dragon. She is allowed to keep all her class abilities as a Blue Dragon.

Do I worry she’s overpowered? Not really. One character is a Swords Bard. His Wish was the ability to declare one roll a day to be a nat 20. After I said ok, he took a Vorpal Sword as his main magic item.

They’re all overpowered. They’re all godlike. And that’s the point. At this level, LET them be overpowered and godlike. There are plenty of creatures that can scare them. Including the bard with the Vorpal Sword, who jumped on his broom of flying and took off THE MOMENT the rust monsters showed up. There’s always ways to make it interesting.

The original rule for Wish was that they already cast it and can’t cast it again. That was when the game was supposed to be a one shot. My new rule is that they can only benefit from one Wish per source of Wish. So if they get a Ring of Three Wishes, each person can only use it once. Some beings, like Genie Lords, count as their own Source and can cast it on someone’s behalf once per person, but a PC that gets Wish as a spell can only cast it one time.

It’s made Wish into something to be respected. If you can cast it every day to duplicate a spell of 8th lvl or lower without material components, you’re basically a god, and I didn’t want to deal with that. Seriously, the spells you can abuse that way.

My second rule is that if you wish for something too outrageous, instead of getting it handed to you, you gain the knowledge needed to make it happen. Wanna become a Lich? Great. You now know the process. Lots of ingredients, lots of quests, and then you can be a Lich. Want to kill Tiamat for good? Great. You now know of a sacred sword made from the heart of a dying god, deep in an endless dungeon with the power to absorb the divine spark of a deity. Put your helmet on, cause it’ll be rough getting there.

 

[jgsugden]

My suggestion is to not change the game, but to run it as designed ... and expect the heroes to be awesome. They're supposed t be They're supposed to beat threats, overcome challenges, and feel mighty. They do not need to feel like there are threats to their health at every turn ... the threats they have to beat can be to the things they care about and want to protect. They can be racing the clock rather than trying to survive. They can be trying to change a situation rather than the final objective just being to kill enemies. They can use wish, as described, to do cool things ... and then go on because they only get to do those wishes so many times. Built to a crescendo and then retire with them feeling the PCs were awesome, over the top friggin heroes.

It works.

 

[tglassy]

My suggestion is to not change the game, but to run it as designed ... and expect the heroes to be awesome. They're supposed t be They're supposed to beat threats, overcome challenges, and feel mighty. They do not need to feel like there are threats to their health at every turn ... the threats they have to beat can be to the things they care about and want to protect. They can be racing the clock rather than trying to survive. They can be trying to change a situation rather than the final objective just being to kill enemies. They can use wish, as described, to do cool things ... and then go on because they only get to do those wishes so many times. Built to a crescendo and then retire with them feeling the PCs were awesome, over the top friggin heroes.

It works.

The only things I changed were to make it run more smoothly. Like Gold. I got rid of Gold in place or a Wealth Ability Score. Because who wants to deal with expenses? If your Wealth is high enough, you can just buy it. Otherwise, it’ll cost a Wealth Point, and then you’re not as wealthy.

I changed Wish because I have a player who would take a class that gets Wish and abuse the hell out of it. Every time he or another party member gets it, he ruins entire adventures with it. Drives me crazy. It’s creative, but i hate it. This way, they get their Wish, it’s just rare and meaningful.

 

[Oofta]

I've run games up to 20th level (and plan to get there again). Always interesting to hear other people's experiences, because my games generally all that gonzo. Maybe it's because we got there by playing and I've slowly introduced the threat(s) and I'm pretty clear when recruiting that I want to run a heroic fantasy game.

I do limit things like plane shift (and teleport) in part because I don't want "get out of jail free" cards. When it comes to wish, if I thought someone was abusing it I'd have a chat with the player. There's clear rules and examples of overstepping with penalties including a 33% chance of never being able to cast it again.

When it comes to influence, I just kind of play that by ear and what makes sense. I don't want metagame influence points. As far as GP, I'm just a tightwad DM that doesn't give out much.

But I'm glad you're finding things that work for you, high level play can be a lot of fun.

 

[pogre]

I have run three campaigns to 20th or near 20th level in the same campaign world. Every so often for a gaming session I will tell the players to bring back one of their favorite retired characters for an epic game. My experience is a little different from the OP's in that the PCs are invested in the world - flat out fleeing really isn't on the table for them. These games require a lot of prep time, but the players enjoy them and get to do some amazing things in the campaign world.

The most satisfying adventures for my group are when they are working to help or save someone else. Many of the 20th level PCs are almost untouchable as targets, but trying to save someone/something else changes the stakes in a fun way.

I have done a few adventures one-on-one or with two players and that is a ton of fun for epic level PCs. Those adventures are usually instigated by a PC wanting to pursue a personal agenda.

It certainly is a different kind of game, but we really enjoy some high level adventures.

 

[Stalker0]

The most satisfying adventures for my group are when they are working to help or save someone else.

I think this is a great point. One of the easiest ways to challenge invincible players is with really vulnerable side characters.

One thing I did in my last campaign (that was like 13th level when we finished), was there was this time when reality got "nuts". One of the players actually became the "McGuffin" to help fix everything, and so was fine, but all the other characters started switching out into alternate reality versions. We had a lot of fun with it, either alternate version of their characters, completely different characters, one played a dancing talking swords for a little bit....was great.

The bad guy knew about the mcguffin and so focused all of his resources on taking that one character out. So the rest of the party didn't really care about death, if they died, they just got replaced with another alternate character, no big deal. But....one character was extremely vulnerable, and if they died....it was game over. So it became a very unique challenge to overcome.