Level 5 Warlord Dailies

[Mengu]

So looking at the Warlord powers for level 5.

Stand the Fallen: 3W damage, and hit or miss, each ally within 10 can spend a surge with bonus equal to your charisma. This is massive healing compared to other warlord powers up to this level, and an excellent option.

Turning Point: 2W damage and 1 saving throw. Is this power on par with Stand the Fallen? How important is 1 additional saving throw (with no special bonus), compared to triggering 2-4 surges, not to mention the additional 1W damage?

Villain's Nightmare: Str vs Refl (nice bonus), 3W, plus a mildly sticky effect. Attacking reflex is nice and all, but compared to all the healing surges you could be triggering, this still seems dull (though better than Turning point).

Stand the Fallen very clearly seems like the superior choice here. Do I have a misconception of how important it is to be able to trigger more healing surges during combat?

 

[ShaggySpellsword]

Like so many things in 4ed, it depends on your party.

If I played the Dragonborn Warlord in an 6 man team including:

A Dwarf Paladin
A Minotaur Fighter w/ Cleric Multiclass
A Eladrin Wizard w/ Cleric Multiclass
A Gnoll Infernal Warlock w/ Ranger Multiclass
A Drow Rogue

(My Actual Current Team, but I'm not the Warlord)

The extra healing wouldn't be all that sexy. I'm in a group with 3 others who can heal to keep themselves and each other pretty healthy, plus one who is constantly gaining temporary HPs. Being able to hit Reflex defense would be great, and being able to get one of the healers out of a bad situation with an extra saving throw could also turn the tide of battle. Giving everyone MORE healing? Eh.

 

[Goolpsy]

Its not always the optimal idea to stack on Healing. As you see from the power, they cxan spend a healing surge = they will have one less for a later time.
Now, in the specific encounter it might be useful, but the party still spend resources.

Remember, if the party isn't too critically wounded, they might be able to heal up between battles anyways.

 

[Mengu]

Remember, if the party isn't too critically wounded, they might be able to heal up between battles anyways.

But daily powers are typically used when the going gets tough. In a difficult encounter, when you see there are still many enemies to fight, and half your party is bloodied (which seems to happen quite often in tough fights that involve an enemy controller), I can't think of a better power than Stand the Fallen. It's a save the day power, compared to the other much milder powers.

 

[Blackbrrd]

It depends on the party, but I would day that you are only using daily powers in difficult encounters, and in difficult encounters healing will be at a premium most of the time.

vs Reflex instead of vs AC is +2.7 to hit on average. I wouldn't say that a saving throw is worth 1w damage and +2.7 to hit, so I would rate Turning point as the worst power.

I would take Stand the fallen, but I can argue for Villain's Nightmare as well.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I thought turning point let multiple allies save? Saves can be very important, since you don't get to save until the end of your turn, getting a free save out of initiative order gets you back a whole turn you were otherwise going to spend under the effect (and some just plain lock you down or worse). So, yes, a free save can be huge.

Stand the Fallen is definitely the best choice if you're the only leader in the party. If you have a Cleric focused on healing, though, it's likely redundant. Villian's nightmare is great because it doesn't just discourage movement like being marked or threatened does, it negates it, automatically. Sure, the villain can then blow his standard action to try to move again, and take the AoOs, but you're really forcing him to blow a lot to just make the attempt (if your fighter's also marked him, that OA can stop his movement, too). In a way, I think, Pin the Foe, at 1st, is just as good, but in combination with Pin the Foe, it really would be a nightmare...

 

[Mengu]

I thought turning point let multiple allies save?

Nope, one ally. And on a miss that ally can make a save against some effect caused by the target. On a hit you can make a save against anything. I realize shaking off being immobalized or slowed, before your turn is good, but is simply having another 55% chance good enough for a daily power? I would hope at least a +Charisma bonus to the roll or something, or give multiple targets a save so you are negating some more of that ongoing dragon breath acid damage.

Don't get me wrong I do realize the power of an additional save, love the Paladin's Divine Mettle for instance, or the Cleric's Sacred Flame (for multiple reasons). But these are at-will or encounter powers, not dailies.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I'd taken villain's nightmare if my party were lacking in defenders. Useful for keeping the BBEG from hitting softer targets.

 

[theNater]

A few conditions whose presence or absence can dramatically change a battle:

Blinded
Dominated
Helpless
Petrified
Restrained
Stunned
Unconscious

If your party's primary defender, striker, or controller is under any of those, a saving throw to end it before their turn is really valuable. The party's primary leader can be less heavily affected by Blinded and Restrained, but that's still plenty of conditions to want to remove at all costs.

 

[Tony Vargas]

OK, I remember that one now, I found the hit vs miss confusing and never really gave it much consideration. There's a utility that lets the Warlord give an ally a free save at +CHA. I'd go with that, and pick either Villain's Nightmare or Stand the Fallen - depending on whether the group was tending to see more Solo encounters or more large-group tough encounters where everyone's getting bloodied before it's over. And, of course, also depending upon whether I was the only leader.