LEVEL ADJUSTMEN simplified

[Michael Silverbane]

I'm not a big fan of the LA buyoff rules, myself, but found the level adjustments to be confusing for some of my players and to be more detrimental to the characters than the benefit gained from whatever critter they were attached to... At the same time, I did not want the penalty of the level adjustment to just go away, so here's what I did.

Level Adjustments stayed more or less as they were, but instead of being an empty level, they became a specific type of hit die. At each of those (previously) empty levels, the character gained a 1d4 hit die, along with 2 + Int mod skill points, poor attack progression, and poor save progression for all three saves. This hit die worked just like any other, granting feats, ability score adjustments, and so on.

 

[Androrc]

I would just use racial classes: Savage Progressions: Level-Adjusted Races

 

[irdeggman]

I would just use racial classes: Savage Progressions: Level-Adjusted Races

This to me is the most elegant solution, it allows playing a LA PC at 1st level too - which is its main advantage, as well as simplicity.

 

[Ragmon]

I would just use racial classes: Savage Progressions: Level-Adjusted Races

Its a nice solution, simple in concept, complex in execution, but now you have a book full of races and explanations on how to split them into levels.
And brings up a questions, do I need to take my racial level right at level 1? Do I need to take it at all?

I'm not a big fan of the LA buyoff rules, myself, but found the level adjustments to be confusing for some of my players and to be more detrimental to the characters than the benefit gained from whatever critter they were attached to... At the same time, I did not want the penalty of the level adjustment to just go away, so here's what I did.

Level Adjustments stayed more or less as they were, but instead of being an empty level, they became a specific type of hit die. At each of those (previously) empty levels, the character gained a 1d4 hit die, along with 2 + Int mod skill points, poor attack progression, and poor save progression for all three saves. This hit die worked just like any other, granting feats, ability score adjustments, and so on.

In your way, you are giving additional power to already stronger races. (for instance a Lich with +7 LA, that would mean 7d4 additional HP, among other things per level adjustment?)

Try my system, the level adjustment characters start at level one tho they need a bit extra XP to level, like the basic system but...eh just read the thing you know what I want to say.

 

[Visigani]

Far and away my idea is superior. If someone at the table wants LA, allow the others to gestalt upto that level.

If someone has a Pixie Sorc lvl 1, other players at the table would get to gestalt upto lvl 4.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

In your way, you are giving additional power to already stronger races. (for instance a Lich with +7 LA, that would mean 7d4 additional HP, among other things per level adjustment?)

Characters with a level adjustment are demonstrably weaker than their counterparts without, which is what the LA buyoff system attempts to redress, and which I assume that your system attempts, as well. Adding that very crappy hit die goes some way towards doing the same thing, but without leaving a large gap between the level adjusted characters and those without.

In my system, a 5th level half-fiend character (for instance) has 5 hit dice worth of hit points, attack progression, etc. And one level worth of class abilities. He is always 4 levels behind on class abilities, but acts in all other ways as a character of his level, just as if he had multiclassed with a slightly crappy class.

In the original system, a 5th level half-fiend character has 1 hit die worth of hit points, attack progression, etc. And on level of class abilities. He acts in most ways as a character 4 levels below his actual level, which is problematic, and slightly confusing.

In your system, a 5th level half-fiend character has 5 levels worth of class abilities, but he gets all of the benefits of his half-fiendishness, at essentially no cost.

In the LA Buyoff system, a 5th level half-fiend character has somewhere between 1 and 5 levels worth of hit dice, and somewhere between 1 and 5 levels worth of class abilities. Eventually he gets those extra abilities at essentially no cost.

 

[Ragmon]

Characters with a level adjustment are demonstrably weaker than their counterparts without, which is what the LA buyoff system attempts to redress, and which I assume that your system attempts, as well. Adding that very crappy hit die goes some way towards doing the same thing, but without leaving a large gap between the level adjusted characters and those without.

In my system, a 5th level half-fiend character (for instance) has 5 hit dice worth of hit points, attack progression, etc. And one level worth of class abilities. He is always 4 levels behind on class abilities, but acts in all other ways as a character of his level, just as if he had multiclassed with a slightly crappy class.

In the original system, a 5th level half-fiend character has 1 hit die worth of hit points, attack progression, etc. And on level of class abilities. He acts in most ways as a character 4 levels below his actual level, which is problematic, and slightly confusing.

In your system, a 5th level half-fiend character has 5 levels worth of class abilities, but he gets all of the benefits of his half-fiendishness, at essentially no cost.

In the LA Buyoff system, a 5th level half-fiend character has somewhere between 1 and 5 levels worth of hit dice, and somewhere between 1 and 5 levels worth of class abilities. Eventually he gets those extra abilities at essentially no cost.

As i should have writen to ever reply...Read the thread...its about XP, i have nothing to say about the fact that LA creatures are HP wise challenged.

 

[irdeggman]

Its a nice solution, simple in concept, complex in execution, but now you have a book full of races and explanations on how to split them into levels.
And brings up a questions, do I need to take my racial level right at level 1? Do I need to take it at all?

Actually it is is extremely simple in execution too. But you need to check the companion artilce on template classes to catch the basis.

General Rules for Template Classes
The following rules apply to the "class version" of any template.
• A character may take a level in a template class as long as the DM approves and the character has earned enough XP to gain a level.
• The DM may wish to require an appropriate ceremony, quest, ritual, or experience before allowing a character to gain levels in an inherited template class. This same option also applies if a character wants to gain levels in an acquired template class without the appropriate trigger (such as an attack by a wereboar to acquire the afflicted wereboar template).
• Template classes follow the normal rules for template acquisition according to creature type. For example, the wereboar template can be added only to a humanoid or giant. Thus, a half-dragon character (whose inherited template has already changed his type to dragon) could not take levels in the wereboar class.
• Unlike the regular template rules as given in the Monster Manual (see Adding More Than One Template, Monster Manual page 293), this variant rules system allows a character to gain levels in a desired inherited template class after gaining levels in an acquired template, if desired. (In effect, these rules turn all inherited templates into acquired templates that have special circumstances for acquisition later in a character's life.)
• The DM should disallow certain redundant combinations of monsters and templates. For example, it makes no sense for a hound archon to gain the celestial or half-celestial template, since it is already a kind of celestial.
• A character cannot take levels in a template class if she already has that template or has taken all the levels in that template class. For example, a natural wereboar (a character who already has "wereboar" as an inherited template) cannot take levels in the wereboar template class.
• Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession. For example, a character who takes a level of wereboar could then take a level of fighter and a level of rogue (or any other combination of other class levels) before taking another level of wereboar. A character must still take the first level of wereboar before taking the second, just as with a normal class.
• Each level in a template class increases the character's level adjustment by +1, just as would a level of any other character class.
• Template class levels can be lost due to any effect or circumstance that would normally cause a character to lose a level.
• Levels in a template class do not count when determining whether a character takes an XP penalty for multiclassing.
• In some cases, a certain monster ability presented in the Monster Manual for a given template is split over two or more class levels in a template class (often by limiting how often an ability can be used at the start). Alternatively, variant abilities may be introduced to build toward an ability that is too powerful for a lower-level character. In these situations, the template class features section explains how the ability works at each level. By the time a character has acquired all possible levels in a template class, the completed set of abilities relating to that particular function works exactly like the normal ability described in the Monster Manual.

Example: In the vampire template class presented below, the template class has abilities called alternate form (lesser) and alternate form (greater). The description of the alternate form ability given in the class description explains that the vampire initially has access to only two of the vampire's normal alternate forms (bat and wolf) but will eventually be able to assume the other two forms (dire bat and dire wolf), as described in the Monster Manual.

Example: In the vampire template class, the character slowly becomes more resistant to critical hits and sneak attacks via the fortification armor special ability. This ability thread culminates in immunity to those attack types once the creature finally gains the undead type. At that point, the fortification ability becomes redundant and can be ignored, and the vampire built with all levels of the template class works exactly like one built with the Monster Manual template.
• Unlike standard character classes (and the "monster classes" from Savage Species), most template classes do not increase Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, or skill points with level. They also do not affect when a character acquires feats, since feat acquisition is based on HD, not ECL. However, some of these aspects of the character can be affected indirectly by alterations in Hit Die type, ability score changes, special attacks or qualities, bonus feats, and so on.

But for racial classes -

Racial Classes
In the same manner that the abilities granted by a template can be broken down into a level advancement form, the abilities of a PC race with level adjustments can be divided into base racial abilities (equivalent to a human, elf, or other standard PC race) and racial levels to fill out the remainder of the race's level adjustment. For example, a drow can be broken into a set of "base" drow abilities (LA +0), plus two extra drow levels, thus bringing the character up to her full +2 level adjustment. Racial classes allow a player to create a 1st-level character of a level-adjusted race at the same power level as a 1st-level character of a standard race. Thereafter, the character can take levels in her racial class in order to gain her full complement of racial abilities. These racial class levels follow the normal rules for gaining levels in a template class

Essentially you must take the "base" i,e., LO=0 racial abilities but can take any of the other "levels" as you choose and when you choose, ending up being a "lesser" variant of the race.