LEVEL ADJUSTMEN simplified

[Ragmon]

Hello and welcome.

To the point, I got an idea to simplify the level adjustment system in D&D 3.5.
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The DM gives XP instead of levels when starting a new character/campaign. You progress by using your XP chart for your level adjustment.
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Examples:
DM gives 6000 XP to start with, that is level 4 with no LA

1) +0 LA character will be level 4
2) +1 LA character will be level 3 + 1000xp
3) +2 LA character will be level 2 + 3000xp
...and so on.

Chart example XP required for next level for +# LA:
+0 LA +1 LA +2 AL
2nd - 1000 2nd - 2000 2nd - 3000
3rd - 2000 3rd - 3000 3rd - 4000
4th - 3000 4th - 4000 4th - 5000
...and so on.
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Cause the old system always led us to arguments in my group, but with this system all the squables can be eliminated with this much easier to understand "system" of using level adjustment characters.

Even if the character has HD then you just add that much to the LA to calculate the total LA for the purpose if advancing in levels.

I hope some ppl find this useful in the games.

Share your toughs with me on this idea... and was this already introduce in some other book that I dont know of like PHB2 or DMG2 maybe. Or if you disagree or found an flaw in my idea.

 

[Dandu]

I like LA buyoff rules found in the UA and SRD.

 

[Herzog]

Although I haven't taken the time to calculate the results, it looks like just another way of stating the level progression while taking LA into account. (if not, where exactly does it differ?)

It might make things more simple to explain, but doesn't actually change anything (does it?)

As stated by Dandu, I like using the LA buyoff from UA/SRD, although I find it has one flaw:

Some creatures get an LA because of special abilities, that are easily duplicated by magic items. This LA doesn't scale with level, so LA buyoff is a good option here.
Other creatures get an LA because of significant stat boosts. Although this is also easily duplicated by magic items, they DO stack with the item adjustments, meaning both the LA creature and non-LA creatures can get the MI boost, with the LA creature coming out on top.
In this case, I find that LA buyoff will eventually result in an (unfair) advantage for the LA creature.

Do you (or anyone else) have a suggestion how to account for this discrepancy?

 

[Ragmon]

I like LA buyoff rules found in the UA and SRD.

Read it but I found it to be confusing and overly complicated. But if im right i can put it in to a few words what that BuyOff rule wants to say:
You pay the level adjustment difference XP cost, [+1LA - 1k xp], [+2 LA - 2k XP]... and doing this while gaining XP to reach level 2.

 

[Ragmon]

Although I haven't taken the time to calculate the results, it looks like just another way of stating the level progression while taking LA into account. (if not, where exactly does it differ?)

It might make things more simple to explain, but doesn't actually change anything (does it?)

As stated by Dandu, I like using the LA buyoff from UA/SRD, although I find it has one flaw:

Some creatures get an LA because of special abilities, that are easily duplicated by magic items. This LA doesn't scale with level, so LA buyoff is a good option here.
Other creatures get an LA because of significant stat boosts. Although this is also easily duplicated by magic items, they DO stack with the item adjustments, meaning both the LA creature and non-LA creatures can get the MI boost, with the LA creature coming out on top.
In this case, I find that LA buyoff will eventually result in an (unfair) advantage for the LA creature.

Do you (or anyone else) have a suggestion how to account for this discrepancy?

Old rules state if the group is level 5 and you have +1 LA you will be character level 4, or +2 LA, character level 3. But this way he will actualy lag behind in XP the higher level the campaign starts at.

Cause if I did the math correctly there is major XP loss in the old system. There is XP left over...its in the thread (i dont wish to copy it here).

 

[Ragmon]

Bump

 

[irdeggman]

This is what I did when I started an Age of Worms game.

"1. Characters start with 1,200 xp (second level plus some). If a character has an item creation feat they can create some items using this xp pool. Subtract any material costs from the starting wealth below. Also, if you want to “convert” some of this xp to starting funds in order to purchase more/better equipment you may do so at a rate of 2gp/xp. You can spend xp such that your character is actually below 1,000 if desired. The character will then be a 1st level character though. During the course of this Adventure path PCs will advance to 20th level (perhaps to epic level depending on how things go and their mortality rate {insert DM evil laugh}).
2. PCs start with 950 gp with which to purchase gear. Standard gear is considered “free”. See later for “standard gear”. The restriction on having no single item worth more than 25% of this amount does not apply. That is, you may spend all of this on a single item, if desired. Spend your money – PCs will be starting with essentially no cash on hand (limited to 10 sp in cash). This is one of the “incentives” for PC involvement in the adventure. Spellcasters that have a spell component pouch (5 gp in the PHB) don’t need to keep track of spell components, except for costly or rare (as in very unique) ones, divine focuses or focuses that wouldn’t fit in the pouch. For initial equipment, everything is available and “book” value. This won’t always be the case, however. Diamond Lake is a “poor” community and stock is limited so don’t always count on being able to buy what you want.
3. Wizards start with an additional 2 spells known per class level (half of the player’s choice and half of mine) reflecting things learned over the past."

I used the level buy off rules from UA, which really aren't that complicated and if a player is saavy enough to be able to play a LA PC then he should be saavy enough to handle the buy off rules too.

 

[Ragmon]

This is what I did when I started an Age of Worms game.

"1. Characters start with 1,200 xp (second level plus some). If a character has an item creation feat they can create some items using this xp pool. Subtract any material costs from the starting wealth below. Also, if you want to “convert” some of this xp to starting funds in order to purchase more/better equipment you may do so at a rate of 2gp/xp. You can spend xp such that your character is actually below 1,000 if desired. The character will then be a 1st level character though. During the course of this Adventure path PCs will advance to 20th level (perhaps to epic level depending on how things go and their mortality rate {insert DM evil laugh}).
2. PCs start with 950 gp with which to purchase gear. Standard gear is considered “free”. See later for “standard gear”. The restriction on having no single item worth more than 25% of this amount does not apply. That is, you may spend all of this on a single item, if desired. Spend your money – PCs will be starting with essentially no cash on hand (limited to 10 sp in cash). This is one of the “incentives” for PC involvement in the adventure. Spellcasters that have a spell component pouch (5 gp in the PHB) don’t need to keep track of spell components, except for costly or rare (as in very unique) ones, divine focuses or focuses that wouldn’t fit in the pouch. For initial equipment, everything is available and “book” value. This won’t always be the case, however. Diamond Lake is a “poor” community and stock is limited so don’t always count on being able to buy what you want.
3. Wizards start with an additional 2 spells known per class level (half of the player’s choice and half of mine) reflecting things learned over the past."

I used the level buy off rules from UA, which really aren't that complicated and if a player is saavy enough to be able to play a LA PC then he should be saavy enough to handle the buy off rules too.

the Buyoff system is complex I read it again, and its easy to get lost in writing, and i wish to talk about the system i wrote down. Tho I appreciate that you try to explain to me what your using.

What I'm saying is with my system the LA system is clear and strait forward with no misunderstanding, and its so simple that even a person just starting to play D&D 3.5 can understand it on the first read.

And its savvy if I'm correct.

 

[Herzog]

I agree the Buyoff system is written down more complex than it has to be.
This is, I assume, also the reason your interpretation of it is slightly off:

You need to get to a specific level first before you are allowed to buy off LA's.

So, no buyoff of your LA+3 during your XP gain to lvl 2.

Also, should you start to use LA buyoff, your XP system makes the combination more confusing, not less.

As it stands though, using your system to explain LA sounds like a good idea. (again, assuming you do not use LA buyoff)

 

[Ragmon]

I agree the Buyoff system is written down more complex than it has to be.
This is, I assume, also the reason your interpretation of it is slightly off:

You need to get to a specific level first before you are allowed to buy off LA's.

So, no buyoff of your LA+3 during your XP gain to lvl 2.

Also, should you start to use LA buyoff, your XP system makes the combination more confusing, not less.

As it stands though, using your system to explain LA sounds like a good idea. (again, assuming you do not use LA buyoff)

Thnx.

I dont plan on using Buyoff, I find it to be stupid for lack of a better word. These guys brought it up, I didnt know it even existed.