Level adjustment

[WarlockLord]

Hypothetical Situation: Let's say I want to play a drow elf wizard. My friend is playing a human wizard. If we are both the same ECL, how do I keep up the same offensive ability (caster level, mainly). Any feats you use?


I ask this because I want to play drow characters, but am always doomed by the fact that can't keep my offence powerful enough. Why are drow LA +2 but they are CR=level +1? Heck, why is a mind flayer ECL 15, but only a speed bump CR 8?

 

[Hypersmurf]

No feats - Practised Spellcaster won't help you, since it's capped at hit dice, not ECL.

One thing that might help you (if you can convince your DM) is the LA Buyback variant rule from Unearthed Arcana.

Regarding the difference between ECL and CR - there are some abilities that are significantly useful to a PC, but which do not significantly increase the challenge of an NPC.

Let's take three examples.

We have an NPC with two scrolls of fireball. We have an NPC who can use fireball as a spell-like ability twice per day. And we have an NPC who can use fireball at will.

Essentially, for a monster who will be encountered and fought by the PCs, these are all of similar benefit to the challenge it represents. A fight might last five rounds, and it's unlikely that the at-will fireballer will be letting off a fireball every round. It's not unreasonable to assume that all three of these NPCs will get off a couple of fireballs before the fight is over.

Now let's take three more examples.

We have an PC with two scrolls of fireball. We have an PC who can use fireball as a spell-like ability twice per day. And we have an PC who can use fireball at will.

The first PC could use the scrolls once, but then they're gone.

The second PC could use two fireballs in one combat each day, but in any other combats that occur that day, he won't have any left.

The third PC can use two (or more) fireballs, in every combat that occurs, even if there are fifteen encounters in one day.

So while the three abilities represent roughly the same increase in the challenge an NPC combat encounter represents (thus in theory giving about the same increase in the NPC's CR), they are of wildly varying usefulness to a PC (and thus the LA they represent would be wildly different also).

-Hyp.

 

[Lorehead]

The spell power class feature of some classes can raise your caster level, although it won't give you your new spells any sooner. If you focus on spells that kill or incapacitate anyone who fails a saving throw, your +2 to your key ability score will cancel out your +2 LA when it comes to the saving throw DCs of your best spells. If you can make it to ECL 19, you'll get 9th-level spells. At level 20 and up, you'll be 2/3 of an epic feat behind, with the same spells per day as the human, and with stat bonuses equivalent to a few epic feats. Since this is really all you have, you may as well specialize and go the Greater Spell Focus route to make those saves as high as possible.

Your glaring weaknesses are Fort saves and hit points. Improved Toughness from Complete Warrior can help with the latter. You might also try becoming undead, if you can stomach losing even more levels.

It's worth noting that WotC's lowering the LA of drow in the Xen'drik Expeditions campaign to +1 (and attempting to balance them with other factors). Jesse Decker and David Noonan have written, in "Design & Development," that "it’s outrageously difficult to get them to earn their Challenge Rating."

 

[Graf]

So you want your drow, with SR, 120ft darkvision, great ability bonuses, spell-like abilities to be able to cast spells as well as a human?

It’s the same reason, really, why your halfing isn’t doing as much damage with his two handed great ax as a same class same-base ability score half-orc. (i.e. he’s got lots of other abilities the orc doesn’t get).

Mindflayers get Astral Projection AND Planeshift….
Properly played they’re like gods.
They just planeshift to another plane, then astral project to a dungeon. If they die? They (and all their gear) just disappear.
And they can wake up and do it again tomorrow.

Honestly MFs are CR 8 because noone ever uses those to abilities except as plot hooks (i.e. the mind flayer got to this place where you’re fighting him by planeshifting). As opposed to what they should do which is “look! Adventurers!” planeshift with all their gear and minions then astral project everyone back and attack the party… rinse and repeat day in and day out until the party dies.

 

[Question]

What DM is going to allow you to planeshift somewhere safe and get free xp/loot by spamming astral projection on "sucide runs" over and over?

Also i feel the LA system is broken. Balanced LA races/templates are NEVER a good choice for a spellcaster simply because spellcasting progression is tied to levels. For fighters it can be a good deal as it doesnt impact them as much......you can, for example, get +12 damage with a half-dragon template for a 3 level hit, whereas a fighter 3 levels higher most definately would be unable to match that. A spellcaster 3 levels higher gains at least 1 level of spells, in exchange for +4 spell DC. Hardly worth it unless you want to spam save or die/get paralyzed/whatever spells.

 

[Mr Jack]

I don't think the LA system is broken it just another thing that doesn't work with spellcasters due to the way that D&D does power curves.

 

[smootrk]

I'll second the level adjustment buy-back. It might seem to suck short-term to lose even that xp, but the DMG XP tables should boost you right back up to close behind your pals. Over time, the cost is really negligible, but yes, in the short term you will be behind your companions ability with your class... but then again, look at all the other special abilities you have over your companions. It really is a fair trade.

 

[werk]

Also i feel the LA system is broken. Balanced LA races/templates are NEVER a good choice for a spellcaster simply because spellcasting progression is tied to levels.

I understand what you are saying, but, to clarify, it's not a good choice for maximizing a spellcaster. It's very playable, and is balanced so as to prevent overpowered characters that would normally result from the extra benefits.

I find it's very different playing a character all the way up as opposed to making a high level twink build for a one-shot game. Occasionally the long-play character will get more mileage out of the race abillities.

.02

 

[Nail]

I'll second the level adjustment buy-back. It might seem to suck short-term to lose even that xp, but the DMG XP tables should boost you right back up to close behind your pals. Over time, the cost is really negligible....

The LA "buy-back" is a steal. Given the way lower level party members gain more XP, it's well worth the expense.

 

[Nail]

Also i feel the LA system is broken. Balanced LA races/templates are NEVER a good choice for a spellcaster simply because spellcasting progression is tied to levels.

Not always.

As any gish or mystic theurge will tell you, it doesn't have to be all about the CL.