Level one...hero or schlub?

I like the answer of 'novice'.

Average people in my world are about 2nd level. Third level is not uncommon and fourth level occurs with a fair amount of regularity.

However, the average 1st level PC is more dangerous than about 95% of all NPC's despite being lower level than the majority of people he encounters.

For one thing, he's got a super-elite stat array (32 pt. buy). Most NPC's in my game have a point buy of between 15 and 20, and so far not one of the hundred or so named NPC's in my game has been built with more than about a 28 pt. buy, including the sub-bosses. Any older and more experienced character can see that a PC character has incredible native potential. NPC's with no stats above 12 and every physical stat of 8 or less aren't that uncommon, simply because if 10-11 is really to be average then the demographics have to reflect that. There really are NPC's out there with 4 STR and 4 CON. They don't exist only in theory as is so often the case in other games, and a 1st level PC is often a match for one if it came to that regardless of whether the NPC is 6th level or not. More on that later.

For another thing, the PC is typically focused on combat ability and skills necessary for surviving in extreme situations. Most NPC's are not. Most are commoners or experts, and most are heavily focused on skills and abilities that are essential to dealing with ordinary everyday challenges like working a job, caring for animals, or haggling in the marketplace. Their Feats tend to focus on improving non-combat skill. They also spend and equip themselves accordingly. Typically, the PC's will need to be mid to high level to consistantly defeat NPC's in challenges related to ordinary affairs, but a 1st level PC is typically capable of defeating in combat most 2nd or even 3rd level NPC's. Most NPC's don't go around in armor, and most don't even own it. Most Wizards will have a spell or three prepared for self-defense, but most will have prepared most of their spells with the intention of engaging in more mundane affairs. When a party of 1st level PC's stride into a room looking like walking arsenals and carrying themselves like the trained killers that they are, people don't look at them and think 'schlob'. They think, "Who are these dangerous people?"

Additionally, in my campaign PC's begin as 'advantaged' individuals, meaning that they have some feature of their background that gives them an edge compared to run of the mill individuals. This gives them additional breath and capability compared to even other 1st level characters with combat and exploration centered skills.

Also in my campaign, PC's have a destiny in the form of 'destiny points' which represent either their native luck, or the favor of the gods, or the interest of powerful spirits who are watching their lives. When the find themselves in a hard space, the PC's can spend their luck to try to get out of it. Ordinary people don't have this advantage (and so far, of the 100 or so named NPC's, only two have also had a special destiny in this fashion).

Finally, when the PC's hit second or later levels, they are assumed to reach this level of experience and skill at an age that is astonishing compared to ordinary people. A PC Wizard might only be 24 and yet be 3rd level or higher, when most NPC wizards would not expect to obtain this level until their mid 40's. Only a few months latter they might well be 6th level, an attainment only the unusual NPC might obtain and then not before being in their latter years. So as they level up, compared to the leaders of the town - those character who also possess considerable power - they tend to be younger, fitter, healthier, and more durable. Sure, when the village is threatened there are certainly higher level characters in the town that the PC's, but a 70 year old wizard while he might well be able to cast fireballs and perform impressive feats of magic far beyond those of the PC is also lucky to get out of bed and totter down the stairs of his tower without falling and breaking a hip. Having no physical attributes above a 5 has a way of making crawling down into a cave seem a far less attractive proposition. Even at 1st level, there probably isn't anyone more capable of answering the call than the PC's within a days march. My current group just hit 4th level. They are now each of them nearly as capable as the most powerful NPC's in the whole kingdom. Only a handful of NPC's could stand up to any of them even one on one, and only 1 in the entire nation of 160,000 individuals is a serious threat to them combined. NPC's probably wouldn't try to take them down at less than platoon strength if they had a choice in the matter.

(As you can tell, I don't much care for the Forgotten Realms model where no matter what level the PC's may be, they are always surrounded by a host of NPC's more powerful than they. The idea of every inn being run by a retired 10th level fighter annoys me to no end.)

So in many many ways, the PC's of my game are not schlubs. They are capable and dangerous people who together represent a threat to just about everything. They are respected even in their youth the way a young prodigy's talent is respected even though most can see that they are still a bit green and inexperienced. But they are still far from being heroes.

You have to be at least 4th level to be a hero; 8th level if you want to be a super-hero. :)
 

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To me, PCs in D&D always start as heroes. Otherwise it makes little to no sense to have any minion creatures. When I GM, at first level the PCs will often be fighting lots of minions. They will feel heroic (within the limited context of the adventure) when they hack apart 5 goblins grunts each.

The trick is to keep the 'pond' small I think. Let them be the most heroic people in their village. As they level, the game world expands. This helps to keep them being in the top tier of their peers. If you start at level 1 and are compared to all the level 8 guards you are going to meet later in the game, then the PCs will feel like a schlub.
 

-- The elf thief

That's still more background than one of my friends had when we started our first real 2E group. We got around to Brian and told him to tell us about himself. His response was "I'm a 6 foot elf!". We still make fun of him for that one :)


As far as the topic, being afraid of housecats at L1 is not heroic. 4E does a great job of making the heroes feel like they are larger than life, even at first level. Get a few levels on, roll around to low paragon.....yeah. Just hit 12th in a Dark Sun game and I have a new group starting up on the 5th that is starting at 12th and doing Revenge of the Giants, so more paragon experience will be a lot of fun.
 

Whether hero, schlub, or whatever, the PCs in the game world simply are what they are. And no matter *what* level they are or become there's always a bigger fish, and there's always a smaller fish.

I also see different classes in different ways here.

1st level Clerics, Druids, Monks, and Wizard types have spent some time formally training in their craft - vaguely equivalent to getting a college degree - but they ain't heroes yet. They've got the book smarts, but that's it.

Thieves, Rangers, Bards and Assassins may have had formal training or may have just been born into (or came very early into) a lifestyle that simply led down that path.

Fighters can have come by their skills in any number of ways - in this they are by far the most versatile.

Cavaliers and Paladins are the only classes I see as wanna-be heroes right from day 1.

Lan-"only a hero when I feel like it"-efan
 

To me, PCs in D&D always start as heroes. Otherwise it makes little to no sense to have any minion creatures.
This quote makes me wonder how much "edition" has on our expectations. Because I grew up on earlier versions, things were a little more open in terms of where you could "place" your 1st level characters at the start of a campaign. The latest edition encourages a particular facet of that previously open spectrum (which we embraced the first couple of times but I would now seek to reject come a future campaign). I wonder if this aspect colours newer players perspectives as much as older games shaded mine?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 


As far as the topic, being afraid of housecats at L1 is not heroic.
I can't imagine ever playing a D&D character afraid of housecats - which game are you referring to here? In earlier editions, I can sense a wariness versus combat at low level but I can't imagine a combat involving a housecat.

Funnily enough, I tutor maths at a client's house and they just got a young cat (4 weeks old) and that thing is feral! I sit down and it jumps up and claws onto you like it was wearing one of those velcro suits (except it is basically clawing into your skin to hold on). And 4 week old kitten claws are damn sharp! That thing has me looking behind me everytime I go there.

So yeah, I'd never play a character afraid of housecats. ;)

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
 

If you start at level 1 and are compared to all the level 8 guards you are going to meet later in the game, then the PCs will feel like a schlub.

I have a slightly different take on that. If you start at level one and there are all these level 8 guards that you meet later in the game, you are a schlub and the existance of the level 8 guards proves it. That you don't meet them until you are ready to face them doesn't change that. It doesn't matter if you are heroic in Elwynn Forest, you are still starting as a schlub if there are wandering level 75 bears in the Grizzly Hills. If that is what your world looks like, the only explanation in game is that no one really ever levels up.

(And in fact, in many cRPG's, no one really ever does level up. The numbers just get bigger because illusion of progress is one way to tickle the lizard brain during a game, but sense all the other numbers in the game are automatically scaling up at exactly the same rate you are no net change in the game play has really occured.)

Under the model of "You are a hero here where there aren't level 8's, and when you actually go there you'll still be a hero because you'll have leveled up", the in game explanation can only be you haven't gotten more heroic; you are just as heroic as you've always been. The numbers are only really meaningful in the metagame as rewards. Otherwise, you've got to wonder why the universe has so carefully segregated itself so that one guy from the next zone doesn't drop by and solve all the local problems in 15 minutes without breaking a sweat.

I create a universe with the assumption that the characters begin no place special. In fact, currently, the characters have gone back to where they started - and no one in the area of where they have started has gained three levels while they were away. The BBEG was exactly Nth level when they were last here, and he's still Nth level. The city watch were 2nd level fighters with 18 pt buy last time, and they still have the same stats. The higher level challenges are exactly where they've always been, and the PC's haven't stumbled into them for exactly the same reasons that they didn't stumble into them at 1st level and for exactly the same reasons that a 1st level commoner can normally walk safely down the street. There are no level 75 bears, and no level 15 minions. The world hasn't leveled up with the PC's, and NPC's are gaining XP at exactly the same rates that the PC's would, it's just the NPC's - being ordinary non-heroic sorts - typically aren't surviving.

Sure, there are always bigger challenges out there, but once you obtain extraordinary status somewhere, it sticks with you. You could go anywhere, and you might die somewhere, but no where would you be a schlub.
 

Starting off, I prefer the character has potential, but not experience. They could be a prodigy or a schlub, but they have the inherit ability to rise above that and become a true hero. I have no qualms about playing a character who starts as a hero, but I just prefer to work towards that goal, rather than start at it.

And I think a wizard who can be offed by his own cat familiar is damned funny, if not egrariously wrong. I guess it's the reason there's charm person at 1st level, not charm animal.
 


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