Level vs. level
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
No problems.
It would be nice to call spell levels "circles" so you could refer to them in-game without saying "Wow, that was a 7th-level spell!" but even so... Pratchett called "Transform to Worms" an 8th-level spell without anyone complaining about it.
It would be nice to call spell levels "circles" so you could refer to them in-game without saying "Wow, that was a 7th-level spell!" but even so... Pratchett called "Transform to Worms" an 8th-level spell without anyone complaining about it.
Mouseferatu said:
I've had some beginners confused, longer than about other aspects of the rules. It's not a huge deal, but i also don't see anything wrong with changing it, so why not? It seem sto me we're comparing an option with a small downside (current naming confusion) vs. one with no downside (change one of the names), so why not make the change?
It probably wouldn't be such an issue, if the level of spell you can cast wasn't significantly different from teh level of the character. Heck, i've got one experienced-RPer-but-new-to-D20-System who still has trouble picking up the contextual clues to know whether her character level or class level is the relevant number. If a 5th-level caster could cast 5th-level spells, it'd probably eliminate 90% of the confusion.
GrumpyOldMan
First Post
This topic has been discussed since the dawn of DnD and has always been used by detractors of the game. But like everyone else here I’ve never met who has been confused by the multiple uses of the word level.
For many years I played Earthdawn, the system uses both levels and circles. Characters advance in circles, spells are classified by level, or is it the other way round? I was always confused, too much DnD at an early age I suppose!!
GOM
For many years I played Earthdawn, the system uses both levels and circles. Characters advance in circles, spells are classified by level, or is it the other way round? I was always confused, too much DnD at an early age I suppose!!
GOM
Gez
First Post
No confusion, but I just think it's a bit clumsy to have to write "spell level" in rulesy stuff when you work on metamagicish things.
Personally, I call spell slots "valences" and each spell level has a name, used in-character by wizards and all sorts of mystics. Name taken from the abaccus stones (called apices, singular apex) of Pope Sylvester II (a.k.a. Gerbert of Aurillac). The original names are sipos (0), igin (1), andras (2), ormis (3), arbas (4), quimas (5), calctis (6), zenis (7), temenias (8) and celentis (9). It seems the names originated from that latin poem:
It's unclear where the names themselves come, though some of them sounds semitic or arabic. Anyway, I found them to be perfectly arcane names for numbers -- perfect for naming spell levels in the background of my homebrew. I've twisted them a bit so that they would all end in -is (sepis, igis, andris, ormis, quamis, etc.) to make it look like there was a convention behind the names, and transvalent spells (epic spells, sometimes referred to as tenth-level spells) are simply Is -- raw magical potential.
Personally, I call spell slots "valences" and each spell level has a name, used in-character by wizards and all sorts of mystics. Name taken from the abaccus stones (called apices, singular apex) of Pope Sylvester II (a.k.a. Gerbert of Aurillac). The original names are sipos (0), igin (1), andras (2), ormis (3), arbas (4), quimas (5), calctis (6), zenis (7), temenias (8) and celentis (9). It seems the names originated from that latin poem:
ordine primigeno sibi nomen possidet igin
andras ecce locum previndicat ipse secundum
ormis post numerus non compositus sibi primus
denique bis binos succedens indicat arbas
significat quinos ficto de nomine quimas
sexta tenet calcis perfecto munere gaudens
zenis enim digne septeno fulget honore
octo beatificos temenias exprimit unus
terque notat trinum celentis nomine rithmum
hinc sequitur sipos est qui rota namque vocatur
andras ecce locum previndicat ipse secundum
ormis post numerus non compositus sibi primus
denique bis binos succedens indicat arbas
significat quinos ficto de nomine quimas
sexta tenet calcis perfecto munere gaudens
zenis enim digne septeno fulget honore
octo beatificos temenias exprimit unus
terque notat trinum celentis nomine rithmum
hinc sequitur sipos est qui rota namque vocatur
It's unclear where the names themselves come, though some of them sounds semitic or arabic. Anyway, I found them to be perfectly arcane names for numbers -- perfect for naming spell levels in the background of my homebrew. I've twisted them a bit so that they would all end in -is (sepis, igis, andris, ormis, quamis, etc.) to make it look like there was a convention behind the names, and transvalent spells (epic spells, sometimes referred to as tenth-level spells) are simply Is -- raw magical potential.
Dr Simon
Explorer
Near the beginning of the old 1st Ed. PHB, dear old EGG waxes about early decisions to name character, dungeon, spell and monster levels different things. You would have had a 4th Rank adventurer meeting a 5th Order monster on the 3rd Level of the dungeon and attacking it with a 2nd Power spell.
Sounds a bit clunky to me, like the way White Wolf (amongst others) come up with fancy names for well-established gaming tropes.
Sounds a bit clunky to me, like the way White Wolf (amongst others) come up with fancy names for well-established gaming tropes.
Klaus
First Post
I'm going against the current here in saying:
Yes, it has been a cause of confusion. Playing on-and-off for four years hasn't clered the "first-level mage casts first-level spells, but 2nd-level mage doesn't cast 2nd-level spells, you have to be a 3rd-level mage". Add in a couple of spellcasting levels from PrClasses and the mess sets in: "You're a 5th-level mage, but you cast spells as a 7th-level, so you can cast 4th-level spells..." "Say what?"
For dungeon levels, I translate them as "floors". In older AD&D translations in Brazil (dunno about the current one), spell levels were translated as "circles" (not spell circles).
You can see the confusion and awkwardness for non-English-speaking gamers: in English you can say "spell level", "character level" or "class level". For my language (and I'm guessing for Spanish and French as well), it has to be "level of spell", "level of character" or "level of class"...
Yes, it has been a cause of confusion. Playing on-and-off for four years hasn't clered the "first-level mage casts first-level spells, but 2nd-level mage doesn't cast 2nd-level spells, you have to be a 3rd-level mage". Add in a couple of spellcasting levels from PrClasses and the mess sets in: "You're a 5th-level mage, but you cast spells as a 7th-level, so you can cast 4th-level spells..." "Say what?"
For dungeon levels, I translate them as "floors". In older AD&D translations in Brazil (dunno about the current one), spell levels were translated as "circles" (not spell circles).
You can see the confusion and awkwardness for non-English-speaking gamers: in English you can say "spell level", "character level" or "class level". For my language (and I'm guessing for Spanish and French as well), it has to be "level of spell", "level of character" or "level of class"...
