D&D 5E Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"

[Lyxen]

But training doesn't mean, for example, "training to get better," its training at playing Dungeons & Dragons. You get a slow drip of impactful features, with each feature changing your playstyle, and designed in a way so as not to overburden the new player with knowledge.

And when I start my 20th campaign under 5e (and maybe my 200th in playing various editions), and play at level 1, I still need training ? This is just ridiculous.

By definition, this is training wheels.

No, actually, by definitions, getting harder and harder features is not training wheels. Training wheels are an add-on needed to try out a skill and which is suppressed later on. There is no feature in the game like this.

 

[Lyxen]

I think the DMG was quoted early in the thread, so I'll just add that DMG (p. 37) describes the characters in level 1-4 as "local heroes", while at level 5-10 they are "heroes of the realm".

That's for the characters, and it has nothing to do with training, especially since the OP and others since then have described the levels as training for the players in playing the game (not for the characters).

 

[Shardstone]

And when I start my 20th campaign under 5e (and maybe my 200th in playing various editions), and play at level 1, I still need training ? This is just ridiculous.



No, actually, by definitions, getting harder and harder features is not training wheels. Training wheels are an add-on needed to try out a skill and which is suppressed later on. There is no feature in the game like this.

You are misreading my post again. I did not say you need training. Please stop adding words and ideas to my posts I did not say to try and make up an argument with me.

Training wheels in the context of this thread are not an add-on needed to try out a skill. I even provided another turn of phrase to replace it with, since training wheels was indeed causing confusion. Your insistence on arguing against a strawman instead of replying to my posts does not build confidence in me for the outcome of this conversation. Please respond to what I wrote, not your redefinitions of what I wrote.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Suggesting that low levels are for inexperienced players to get better at D&D is a red herring as most play take place at low to mid levels.

I am a D&D veteran and i frequently play L1-4. D&D anyways ☺

 

[Scott Christian]

@Retreater : That is an odd thing for her to say. I don't see any of it as training wheels. I mean, in my experience, players have a much greater chance of dying at level 1, than 10, or 5 for that matter.

 

[Shardstone]

Suggesting that low levels are for inexperienced players to get better at D&D is a red herring as most play take place at low to mid levels.

I am a D&D veteran and i frequently play L1-4. D&D anyways ☺

It is not a red herring. It is well-known that levels 1 through 4 were designed in such a way as to onboard new players onto the game with ease and also to provide a satisfying experience to long-term fans. I'm not making a suggestion, I'm pointing out an objective fact.

 

[Lyxen]

To return back to the topic at hand, yes, levels 1-4 are training wheels. That isn't a bad thing at all, and I think a lot of people in this thread have negative connotations when using this phrase. So, a better turn of phrase would be that levels 1-4 are the "getting started" levels for D&D.

No, sorry. I have shown you the results of D&D analysis that show that most players don't play past level 5. Does this mean that they are always using training wheels, not even playing the game properly ? And when I start a new campaign, of which I have played hundreds in my life, does it mean that I use training wheels when I start my new characters ?

In those four levels, you get all the basic features needed for your fantasy experience, as well as a chance to get better in one direction or to attain a feat of choice. This is very much by design. The new player experience requires levels 1-4 to be simple, guided, and well-parsed; higher levels do not have such requirements, and the highest levels have barely received any thought in regards of features beyond what is needed to mechanically bolster what was learned in the early game.

As someone said, a beginner in the game will learn all along the levels. Level 11 will be as much a learning of new spells as level 3 or level 5 were. As for me, I don't think that I need training, thank you very much, but I still enjoy playing my characters at level 1-5.

 

[Plaguescarred]

@Retreater : That is an odd thing for her to say. I don't see any of it as training wheels. I mean, in my experience, players have a much greater chance of dying at level 1, than 10, or 5 for that matter.

For that matter its true that L1 there may be training or lesson to learn; you can more easily die. It can teach players to be more cautious !

 

[Shardstone]

No, sorry. I have shown you the results of D&D analysis that show that most players don't play past level 5. Does this mean that they are always using training wheels, not even playing the game properly ? And when I start a new campaign, of which I have played hundreds in my life, does it mean that I use training wheels when I start my new characters ?



As someone said, a beginner in the game will learn all along the levels. Level 11 will be as much a learning of new spells as level 3 or level 5 were. As for me, I don't think that I need training, thank you very much, but I still enjoy playing my characters at level 1-5.

You are so attached to the phrase training wheels man. I already used a different phrase, which was getting started. My god, no one is insulting your level of experience. FOr the last time, please stop creating strawmen to try and make it seem like I am attacking you, and respond to the contents of my post. I am not saying that you need training wheels to start new characters.

Your second post is just more of the same. No one is saying you need training. You need to seriously get past this insane pride of yours, because I am not attacking you by saying those levels were designed for new players to learn the game easily. I even just said they are designed to provide a SATISFACTORY EXPERIENCE FOR LONG TIME PLAYERS, LIKE YOURSELF.

Like seriously, how can you keep just ignoring what I write to create an attack that isn't even there?! Why do you want me to insult you so bad when I am clearly NOT insulting you?!?!??

 

[Plaguescarred]

It is not a red herring. It is well-known that levels 1 through 4 were designed in such a way as to onboard new players onto the game with ease and also to provide a satisfying experience to long-term fans. I'm not making a suggestion, I'm pointing out an objective fact.

This is true for any RPG game and many other games, You start small and progress.

But having little and getting more is not necessarily for training purposes even though it help those with less experience.

It's a red heering where some people eventually come to associate;

Low level = inexperienced
high level = experienced