D&D 5E Levels of literary heroes (and inflation thereof)

[Morlock]

I wouldn't give Luke a single sub-average stat, even at the start of the first movie.

Also, Luke seems higher than level 1 even at the start of the first movie. He kills quite a few stormtroopers and makes it out of the death star without a scratch. Then he levels up and destroys quite a few enemy craft, and finally the death star.

I don't care what those writers put him as through the same inflated assumptions I'm talking about here, Luke will never have a CHA higher than 8 in my opinion (all that God-awful whining all the time)

Though the movies never emphasized it, Luke was a leader of men and presumably well-respected. Sub-average CHA seems ill-thought-out. He was also fairly good-looking, which is something generally rolled into CHA, IMO.

(ETA: look at how many rebel pilots start deferring to him as the battle of Yaavin progresses)

Giving him a sub-average CHA would seem to elevate the truly average in CHA far above their proper station. Average person is a mope in terms of CHA (will never get near the silver screen), and that's what CHA 9-10 is supposed to reflect (ETA: doh! I meant 10-11 ).

The man solo'd a Balrog,

Indeed. Gandalf was essentially a divine being. A demon like a Balrog strikes me as a CR20 kind of threat. Even if you low-ball it, CR10 at least.

Coming up with D&D stats and comparable world stats is difficult because the worlds are so different.

This. D&D at mid levels has always been pretty epic, and at high levels, characters are more like gods.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Really though, I don't consider his character to be a whiner. He was young and his legal guardians weren't letting him go off and do things with his friends, that is exactly like every teenager in the entire world.
.

I've raised 2 teens, and neither of them whined nearly as much as Luke. I'm also a youth coach. If you think Luke's whining is the norm like every other teenager, I gotta question what kinds of teens you hang around with.

Also, the "Luke is a whiner" is hardly a minority opinion. Like I said, it's pretty widely held. In D&D terms, charisma affects your initial reaction to people. When pretty much everyone he meets has a meh or annoyed reaction, that's indicative of a low charisma. If he did have a higher than average charisma, then it wouldn't have manifested in so many negative reactions. There is nothing in the movies that indicate a high charisma. "Because the rules are structured so the force is keyed off CHA" isn't a good reason, because the game designers have nothing to do with the actual movie. Also, just because someone is in charge and leads people, doesn't indicate a high CHA. I've met plenty of officers who would have a low CHA, and I'm sure most people here have worked for bosses that would have a low CHA. Once again, don't conflate deeds with charisma.

 

[EscherEnigma]

By definition, Charisma is the ability to ‘move people’, and includes both love and dread.

Absence of Charisma means being unnoticeable.

The important part is that they "move" how you want them to move. If you consistently and unintentionally make people dislike you, that's not a sign of a high charisma no matter how much they dislike you.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I was more flummoxed by SWSE making Han Solo and Chewbacca mental giants. No they're not.

 

[Morlock]

Once again, don't conflate deeds with charisma.

It's a feedback loop. The greater your deeds, the greater your fame, the greater your influence over people, and positive feedback like that loops back into your leadership abilities. The two are correlated.

Luke as whiner requires a narrow focus on the first movie, really, when he was a snot-nosed kid. Also, his central role as blank slate vs. plot dispensation. E.g., he plays the skeptic who needs convincing about the power & nature of the force. If he hadn't pushed back, he'd have been a boring, mindless automaton. Lose-lose, if you're going to insist on being a nitpicker (i.e., on whining ).

 

[mflayermonk]

The archmages in Jack Vance's Rhialto the Marvelous all cast Time Stop multiple times, so they must be level 18 plus.


As a fun side note, let us not forget that the elder god Cthulhu (all praise his name) was defeated by a sailboat.

 

[GameOgre]

I've raised 2 teens, and neither of them whined nearly as much as Luke. I'm also a youth coach. If you think Luke's whining is the norm like every other teenager, I gotta question what kinds of teens you hang around with.

Also, the "Luke is a whiner" is hardly a minority opinion. Like I said, it's pretty widely held. In D&D terms, charisma affects your initial reaction to people. When pretty much everyone he meets has a meh or annoyed reaction, that's indicative of a low charisma. If he did have a higher than average charisma, then it wouldn't have manifested in so many negative reactions. There is nothing in the movies that indicate a high charisma. "Because the rules are structured so the force is keyed off CHA" isn't a good reason, because the game designers have nothing to do with the actual movie. Also, just because someone is in charge and leads people, doesn't indicate a high CHA. I've met plenty of officers who would have a low CHA, and I'm sure most people here have worked for bosses that would have a low CHA. Once again, don't conflate deeds with charisma.

Wait wait Wait!

You raised two adult or near adult teens, told them not only what to do with every hour of there day(I was going to go talk to Bigs,No you have water to suck out of the air) but told them what career they were going to pursue and they were ok with that and didn't whine very much? Even after you put any wants and needs they might have off for YEARS.

On top of that, you and your wife ect were horribly murdered by the government and those kids were pretty much blamed for it and they joined a gorilla force fighting against the government that murdered their family until they found out there (REAL) father was the second in command of the government and they had to fight him to the death. Then they fought on anyway but tried to save their father at the same time.

they did all that and whined less than Luke?

Seems to me like you failed to take into account any background things going on. Guess Luke was lucky he didn't have a youth coach to talk things over with!

"Shut up and stop whining Luke! I don't care that your family was just gunned down and burned to death, Walk it off you Sissy! You don't see the other kids crying do you? STOP IT!"

 

[GameOgre]

Dang it, this is enough to make me start hunting down youth coach's to drop into a Sarlacc!

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Luke's reputation for whinging is worse than his actual attitude. By the time the Battle of Yavin rolls around, he's starting to grow up, and aside from a few gripes while training with Yoda, the whinging never really comes back. It's just a phase, not a key character trait.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBG2rJZGW8

 

[TheCosmicKid]

As a fun side note, let us not forget that the elder god Cthulhu (all praise his name) was defeated by a sailboat.

Yeah, the Lovecraftian Elder Gods, like the Great and Powerful Oz and the filmography of Alfred Hitchcock, are far more impressive in reputation than in actuality. People criticize the Arkham Horror game for letting you take on all the monstrosities of the cosmos with tommy guns and dynamite, but I've read the stories, and I'm just like: yeah, that's about right.