D&D 5E Levels of play

[ZickZak]

I read somewhere that with 4e players shifted towards pathfinder and other games and now with them coming back to feel the "classic feel"

• What levels would you consider the classes to be most balanced at?
• What levels do you usually think are boring to play?
• At what levels does your campaign usually end while you start over?
  
  Thanks

 

[S'mon]

These seem like 3e/PF questions that aren't really relevant to 5e (or 4e). 5e generally gets more interesting at level 3, but doesn't really break down at any level. Classes are pretty balanced (except Moon Druid at level 2), and 5e doesn't create that desire to end game & restart I associate with 3e/PF.

 

[ZickZak]

These seem like 3e/PF questions that aren't really relevant to 5e (or 4e). 5e generally gets more interesting at level 3, but doesn't really break down at any level. Classes are pretty balanced (except Moon Druid at level 2), and 5e doesn't create that desire to end game & restart I associate with 3e/PF.

I have read several times that players almost never go beyond certain level. I think it was at level 15 or so.
I doubt the classes are balanced all the way, looking at most of the 6+ level spells. I am unsure though so that is why the questions.

 

[Gadget]

I have read several times that players almost never go beyond certain level. I think it was at level 15 or so.
I doubt the classes are balanced all the way, looking at most of the 6+ level spells. I am unsure though so that is why the questions.

I think most of the Adventure Paths go to level 15, but I'm not sure if that is when most people stop their campaigns. There have been a few threads lately on when people stop and play new characters, or what the 'sweet spot' for 5e is in terms of levels, but I am not aware of specific criticisms about 5e being poor at high level play. People just seem to, for a variety of reasons, enjoy starting over past a certain point. I don't think 5e is worse at high level play than earlier editions (with the possible exception of 4e, depending on what you value in your game).

As for balance, others will have to chime in, but you may have noticed that spell casters get very few 6+ level spells per day. This in addition to limitations like concentration and the many features other classes get at high level.

I have heard one complaint, now that I think of it, about high level play: the CR system seems to become less accurate the higher level you get. Personally, I think this is a natural consequence of the variability and breadth of options and combinations that increase as you level (along with things like the action economy and Bounded Accuracy), but some have complained about curb stomping high (or eve mid) level 'deadly' challenges.

 

[S'mon]

I have read several times that players almost never go beyond certain level. I think it was at level 15 or so.
I doubt the classes are balanced all the way, looking at most of the 6+ level spells. I am unsure though so that is why the questions.

Well, I'm not planning to stop my campaign at 15 (current highest PC 11th), at most I might nerf a few of the highest level spells. I think there is a concern that with monsters being relatively weak it might be hard to challenge a large group of very high level PCs, but given the Attunement & Concentration limits I'm not too worried with my 3-PC group. As of 11th I've certainly not seen any of the caster supremacy issues that plague 3e/PF from 7th or so.

 

[S'mon]

I have heard one complaint, now that I think of it, about high level play: the CR system seems to become less accurate the higher level you get. Personally, I think this is a natural consequence of the variability and breadth of options and combinations that increase as you level (along with things like the action economy and Bounded Accuracy), but some have complained about curb stomping high (or eve mid) level 'deadly' challenges.

I see just as many complaints from players that their high level PCs can't destroy armies 3e/PF style, though. And some "Who needs heroes when an army could kill the monster just as well?!"

 

[Sacrosanct]

All of my answers can be found in the thread I created Wednesday for almost the same exact topic

 

[Tony Vargas]

I assume you're asking about 5e...

What levels would you consider the classes to be most balanced at?

Probably 1st. But, it's virtually moot: balance is mainly in the spotlight mode and DM-managed. You actively keep the flow of the game moving and make sure everyone gets to participate, rather than expect the system to do it for you.

What levels do you usually think are boring to play?

Personally, I have not found any level of 5e entertaining as a player. DMing's never boring, though.

At what levels does your campaign usually end while you start over?

I have read several times that players almost never go beyond certain level. I think it was at level 15 or so.

10th is the statistic that WotC came up with (and, eventually, shared) when they were designing 3e. But, that's really a question that encompasses much more than 5e (afterall, campaigns can transition across editions). My old AD&D campaign went past level 14 (the lowest level characters never exceed 14th, one made it to 18th), but was so heavily modified it was barely D&D at all. 3e campaigns I was in started in 3.0 and went the entire run, wrapping at 13th level (and, wow, were the cracks showing), the one I ran only went 6 levels or so, but it was a defined story-arc. 4e campaigns I've been in or run have gone to Paragon, one of those is on hiatus and going to start Epic when it returns, and the one that I'm still running just hit 18th. I've yet to run what I'd consider a 5e campaign: I've been running Encounters, those re-set at 4th, and intro games at conventions which are one-shots by nature.

 

[ZickZak]

I assume you're asking about 5e...
Probably 1st. Balance is mainly in the spotlight mode and DM-managed. You actively keep the flow of the game moving and make sure everyone gets to participate, rather than expect the system to do it for you.
Personally, I have not found any level of 5e entertaining as a player. DMing's never boring, though.
10th is the statistic that WotC came up with (and, eventually, shared) when they were designing 3e. But, that's really a question that encompasses much more than 5e (afterall, campaigns can transition across editions). My old AD&D campaign went past level 14 (the lowest level characters never exceed 14th, one made it to 18th), but was so heavily modified it was barely D&D at all. 3e campaigns I was in started in 3.0 and went the entire run, wrapping at 13th level (and, wow, were the cracks showing), the one I ran only went 6 levels or so, but it was a defined story-arc. 4e campaigns I've been in or run have gone to Paragon, one of those is on hiatus and going to start Epic when it returns, and the one that I'm still running just hit 18th. I've yet to run what I'd consider a 5e campaign: I've been running Encounters, those re-set at 4th, and intro games at conventions which are one-shots by nature.

We are level 10. We are allowed to MC and going 2druid/3warlock/5sorcerer it appears my friend can do everything on his own (especially using SpellPoints) and it somewhat starts to be easy. Even the deadly encounters are "meh". I play 5rogue/5warlock and with Uncanny Dodge and Fiend feature, I can block roughly 14 dmg per round if I kill every turn and being range character I am yet to go below 90% hp.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I read somewhere that 4e players shifted towards pathfinder and other games and now with them coming back to feel the "classic feel"

I think you either misread or got bad information. What would have been more likely would be for it to have said that a lot of 3e players went to Pathfinder, and now some of those players are transitioning to 5e. In general, 4e and Pathfinder are two diverging camps of D&D players after 3e stopped publishing (though many people stuck with 3e). While you will have exceptions, going from 4e to Pathfinder isn't really a thing.

People have adopted 5e coming from all editions.

Random thought from the thread... It occurs to me that perhaps the balance, challenge, or fun of playing at any particular level has very little to do with people ending a campaign and starting a new one. Instead, I wouldn't be surprised if the major motivation was simply being, essentially, bored with their current characters/campaign, and wanting to try something new. "Campaign fatigue" as I've heard it.

If that is actually a major contributing factor, that it's only due to the fact that most games start at 1st level that they aren't generally going all the way to 20th level. Start at 10th level, and see if most campaigns make it to 20th level.