D&D 5E Levitate and grapple or similar effects

[ECMO3]

Looking at if someone is grappled or restrained by a similar monster ability, how does this play RAW with Levitate under 2 situations:

1. Wizard casts levitate on the one who is grappled (willing): My reading is this does NOT break the grapple. You can't levitate the individual.

2. Wizard casts levitate on the one doing the grappling (unwilling): With a failed save the Wizard can levitate the individual. This would be the equivalent of forcing the grappler away and WOULD break the grapple.

Is this how you would rule it or would you rule differently?

 

[RangerWickett]

I'd say the grappled person can be moved by a third party. And if your wizard levitates the guy, I'd let the person grappling him hold on for a ride or choose to let go.

 

[Mars Hall]

I'd say the grappled person can be moved by a third party. And if your wizard levitates the guy, I'd let the person grappling him hold on for a ride or choose to let go.

This is also how I would rule.

 

[Umbran]

Is this how you would rule it or would you rule differently?

I might call for another strength check by the grappler to maintain their hold.

Another valid take would be that the spell speaks to "One creature or loose object", that totals up to 500 lbs. That's one creature, not multiples. If you can't lift a sword that's in someone's hand, I can see the ruling that you can't levitate a goblin that's in someone's hand either.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you can't lift a sword that's in someone's hand

You can lift the sword if you also lift the person who is holding it.

I would be inclined to treat grappler and grapplee as a single target for the spell, just as you would stuff being worn/held. Thus if the combined weight is less than 500 lb, both are lifted, if it's more than that, neither is lifted.

 

[greg kaye]

...
Another valid take would be that the spell speaks to "One creature or loose object", that totals up to 500 lbs. That's one creature, not multiples. If you can't lift a sword that's in someone's hand, I can see the ruling that you can't levitate a goblin that's in someone's hand either.

What if a Goblin has an anchor in their hand?

 

[greg kaye]

...
Another valid take would be that the spell speaks to "One creature or loose object", that totals up to 500 lbs. That's one creature, not multiples. If you can't lift a sword that's in someone's hand, I can see the ruling that you can't levitate a goblin that's in someone's hand either.

I'm inclined to think that this is the right interpretation per the spell's description

Even at Str 8 or lower, the target can move if it can grip onto a fixed object. Hold onto something and, if you've gone up, you can easily go back down.

The description starts "One creature ..." and I'm inclined to think that, even if two goblins were just holding hands, a levitate spell couldn't be cast on either of them. These are steady goblins and neither of them is loose.

What if one of the goblins is killed and the corpse effectively becomes an object? Could you lift the dead goblin then and pull it from the living goblin's grip. RAW indicates no.

I'd say that if a living thing holds onto another thing, that second thing can't be levitated whether the second thing is alive or dead.

 

[Oofta]

According to the grappled condition (bold added)

The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.​

​

Positioning is relative, so I would rule that the grapple is broken no matter who is levitated.

However, if the creature that is grappled is the target I'd also give the grappler a saving throw to hold on to them. At that point, mostly because it would be fun, the grappler might be levitated with the the target depending on weight, etc.

 

[greg kaye]

According to the grappled condition (bold added)

The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.​

Thunderwave is a spell of "instantaneous" "thunderous force" capable of blasting targets.
Levitate can be interpreted as just making "one creature or loose object" weightless while also facilitating a 20 ft per six seconds, and (per spell description) very arrestable, average speed. If the creature itself applies force, it can move itself. What happens if another creature applies the force?

There's no thunder. This what the title wording of spell indicates that it does.

What if something with weight prevents the movement?

 

[jgsugden]

The grappled condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated, or if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler.

Many DMs rule that anything that pushes, pulls or otherwise relocates either the grappler or grapplee will remove the grappled condition so long as the forced movement takes you out of the reach. I do not. Instead, I ask the grappler if they're trying to hold on, and then (if they are) I make a ruling on how hard that is, and how each part of the grapple (and the push/pull effect) is impacted if they hold on. This often requires me to think on my feet.

So, if you're grappling a tiny creature and it is hit by a push effect that moves it 10 feet, I think about that similarly to how hard it is to hold onto something the size of a watermelon that was hit hard enough to send it flying 10 feet. If you hold on, that object may take some extra damage, but if you're so much bigger than it, you might get knocked down, but you're not flying 10 feet - so if you hold on, it isn't moving.

Alternatively, if you're being grappled by a large ogre and it is hit and sent flying 10 feet by that same 10 foot push, there is a good chance you'll still be held by the ogre and go with it. I'd likely just have another grapple check to determine if you break free.

For levitate, the spell doesn't describe violent movement, and it has a weight limit. The description of the movement is brief, but I picture it as something rising up to 20 feet over a few seconds - so moving at a walking speed. That is not likely to break the grapple by itself due to a violent jerk - but if the two parties together exceed 500 lbs then all there is would be upward pressure on the target of the spell - they would not go anywhere. I might give the grappler disadvantage on grapple checks going forward as the spell is attempting to assist with breaking the grapple, but I'd factor in that the spell can apply 500 lbs of upward pressure, but the weight of the target offsets some of that, meaning that a grappler trying to hold a levitating creature needs to be able to carry 500 lbs minus the weight of the target.

So - when do I have the "removes the grappled creature" impact the grappled condition? When the grappler let's go (voluntarily or unvoluntarily), teleportation, etc...