D&D 5E Light release schedule: More harm than good?

[guachi]

Funny how the people continually saying that WotC is driving people away by not releasing more product are they themselves still here. Maybe once they start walking the walk and stop playing the game and stop posting about it will I take their complaints more seriously. Otherwise it seems more just idle complaints because they aren't getting what they personally want.

They aren't driving me away from playing the game. They are driving me away from me giving them my money. Yes, if the game is good my desire to play can generate income from other people who buy stuff, like the guy in my group who will probably get around to buying the PHB soon. But not buying product because I don't like it certainly isn't helping WoTC's bottom line at all.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

what about other role playing games... shadow run is on what 6th or 7th edition I think Gurps is 9th...

Shadowrun is on 5th Edition, and it's a newly-released edition. They don't even have all of their core books out yet. And their 4th Edition lasted for 8 years.

Checked. GURPs is still on 4th, and has been for ten years. I think that's why Savage Worlds is gobbling up its market.

 

[chriton227]

what about other role playing games... shadow run is on what 6th or 7th edition I think Gurps is 9th...

Shadowrun 5e just came out in 2013, I first bought it in 1993 when it was 2nd edition (released in 1992). So 3 editions released in 21 years, with no minor revisions that I know of like Skills and Powers, 3.5, or essentials mixed in. On top of that, each edition is actually lasting longer than the edition before it.

GURPS is on 4e, released in 2004. 3e was released in 1988 and both 1e and 2e were released in 1986, so 16 years between the latest revisions.

Shadowrun's mechanics have changed substantially through the editions much like D&D has. GURPS on the other hand has had relatively little mechanical change over the editions, with the material from 3e being easily usable with 4e with little to no modification.

The only major RPG that I know of with more major version releases than D&D is Hero System (currently on 6e), and even then the changes from edition to edition were sometimes smaller than the changes that took place in some of D&D's minor releases (S&P, 3.5, 4e Essentials). And if you include White Box, Blue Box Basic, Moldvay, BECMI, Black Box/Rules Cyclopedia, Skills and Powers, 3.5e, and 4e Essentials, D&D is effectively on it's 13th edition, double the number of revisions that Hero System had including Hero Basic.

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make by bringing Shadowrun and GURPS into the discussion, but you might have made your point more clearly had you taken a couple minutes to make sure you had your facts straight.

 

[TreChriron]

On the subject of "Savage Worlds is eating up GURPS 4e market because #oldness" - no. No no no. SW is a light fast game. This market is largely comprised of aging adults who no longer have time to prep or deal with complex games. Not only is SW lighter and faster to pick up, but plot point campaigns are catered to this exact demographic - "the busy GM". The only people who complain about release schedules or release content are current fans disappointed in the release schedule (not enough!!) or content (PDF only, not enough!).

On the OP subject...

Look. Here's the bold truth. It's going to hurt the naysayers' feelings, so if you are sensitive, look away now;

WOTC is going to make some 5e products over the next several years at the rate they want to of the subjects they feel will sell the best. And you're going to buy them. I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

So, all this hand-wringing is actually one of the following things;

1. Gluteus Maximus Hurt because "WAH I want more things faster!!!"
2. Gluteus Maximum Hurt because "This is my game and these makers aren't giving us enough attention!!!"
3. A mental deficiency that inspires someone to find the worse in any situation and then decry it as "the next big disaster looming just beyond the horizon".
4. Controversial pandering for controversies sake.

It's going to be OK. Hit up DriveThru RPG. Look for generic adventures or maps. There's like 5 million products to choose from (I exaggerate a tad, but there's PILES of 'em...). Now, buy one or two, set some 5e adventuring shenanigans to the new hotness. Go Play. Wash - Rinse - Repeat. Before you know it, you have loving validation and consumerist bliss in the next 5e release.

I'm pulling for you. We're in this together. Good luck, have fun. Let us know how it goes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

And since they have this great expertice 4e was a great hit and they didn't need to make a 5th edition ...

Even taking your proposition at face value, that doesn't mean that Some Rando On The Internet knows better than they.

I'm an IT girl, I live in the world of software updates, I see everything around me accelerating, so no, I see it as the natural progression of improvement, faster updates over time is how it should be.


As for comparision to Catan or monopoly, those are vastly different things. I do not believe the nature of them is comparable. But if you insist, I have played 2 games of Catan in my life, I haven't played Monopoly in probably 15 years, there' s nothing new there for me. I hope D&D doesn't get to that state. I want fresh life coming into D&D all the time.

And my final dig, you can't tell me that monopoly doesn't have flaws that would be well served by an update

Pretty fair points. My only real counterpoint would be to point out that D&D is not used or consumed the same way folks consume software, so expectations for one probably shouldn't hold true for the other anymore than expectations for Catan should hold true for D&D.

 

[Kramodlog]

WOTC is going to make some 5e products over the next several years at the rate they want to of the subjects they feel will sell the best.

Only if it is profitable and meets expectations. WotC/Hasbro won't bankroll a non-profitable game just for the lulz.

D&D was essentially on ice for two years because 4e wasn't meeting projections.

I hope not glutes were harmed because of this post.

 

[DEFCON 1]

They aren't driving me away from playing the game. They are driving me away from me giving them my money. Yes, if the game is good my desire to play can generate income from other people who buy stuff, like the guy in my group who will probably get around to buying the PHB soon. But not buying product because I don't like it certainly isn't helping WoTC's bottom line at all.

If they aren't concerned with you giving them your money... why are you so concerned about it? You know... if you really have such a need to give them your money so badly... just go onto dndclassics.com and buy a whole handful of modules there that you can adapt to a 5E game. That way you get what you want twice over... more product for your game, plus you get to give them your money you seem so primed to do.

 

[Mistwell]

Four, five, or even six books a year would be a good balance.

Too many for me. Every other month sure feels like bloat to me. It's possible your tastes are common, but have you considered the possibility your tastes are the exception and people really do want 2-3 a year?

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

On the subject of "Savage Worlds is eating up GURPS 4e market because #oldness" - no. No no no. SW is a light fast game. This market is largely comprised of aging adults who no longer have time to prep or deal with complex games. Not only is SW lighter and faster to pick up, but plot point campaigns are catered to this exact demographic - "the busy GM". The only people who complain about release schedules or release content are current fans disappointed in the release schedule (not enough!!) or content (PDF only, not enough!).

It is a personal hypothesis. I know a lot of Savage Worlds fans I've talked to are former GURPS players. In general, I get the feeling the two have almost the same customer base, with Savage Worlds designed under a new game design paradigm.

 

[Trickster Spirit]

Except this isn't settlers or carcassonne or other such games. You need adventures. .....and some of us would like to buy them, not create them from scratch. The analogy does not hold. I don't need more rules.....I also don't need 300 page paths....whatever, I will just give any additional money to third parties.

And Wizards is likely fine with this.

WotC is not Paizo, or Green Ronin or Mongoose - D&D is not their primary business, MTG is. Seriously, the biggest brand in the pen and paper industry is still only small potatoes next to the money printing license that Magic is.

Rather than invest a lot of money and man-hours into an unsustainable product line a la 3.x or 4E, Wizards has decided on putting out a solid rules system to keep the game alive, a modest schedule of ~6 books a year, and doubling down on organized play. D&D is worth far more to them as a brand than it is a product line - it never has and likely never will bring in a ton of money as a pen and paper RPG, but as a successful movie franchise / cable or streaming TV series / best selling series of novels / AAA video game series, it's worth Tiamat's weight in gold.

They aren't driving me away from playing the game. They are driving me away from me giving them my money. Yes, if the game is good my desire to play can generate income from other people who buy stuff, like the guy in my group who will probably get around to buying the PHB soon. But not buying product because I don't like it certainly isn't helping WoTC's bottom line at all.

To reiterate - our money isn't what they're after this time around. They're going to put out as much as they feel will keep as many people playing the game as possible, going so far as to give away what was going to have likely been a profitable splatbook for them. They've clearly seen SOME numbers telling them that a 3.x / early 4E / Pathfinder like schedule is at cross purposes towards that goal.

They're banking that players of the game filling seats when the movie or the TV show or the video game or the freakin' Broadway show comes out, because THAT will be what makes D&D into a mainstream success, not "The Complete Book of Fighter Tricks Vol. VII - Caltrops and Friends."

And it's not just 5E players they're looking to, but 4E players, 3.5 players, 2E players, 1E players, Basic players, Mentzer players, OD&D players, and yes even Pathfinder players because let's face it, it's all the same damn game. Hence all the old books up on D&D Classics and the focus on fluffy adventures that can be easily ported to any edition regardless of crunch.