lightning bolt cover?
- Thread starter fl8m
- Start date
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re
Table 8-9 would suggest otherwise...
-Hyp.
Table 8-9 would suggest otherwise...
-Hyp.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I'm curious... in your opinion, what would provide partial cover from a fireball?
-Hyp.
Re
Depends on where the fireball originated from. A wall or door would provide cover as long as the wizard didn't drop the fireball beyond the wall. A door or wall would provide cover as long it survived the damage of the lightning bolt.
A person does not provide cover because how can you call a lightning bolt or fireball an area of effect spell if the people it strikes provide cover progressively for each other? It totally goes against the design of lightning bolt and fireball. They are made to strike multiple living targets.
Depends on where the fireball originated from. A wall or door would provide cover as long as the wizard didn't drop the fireball beyond the wall. A door or wall would provide cover as long it survived the damage of the lightning bolt.
A person does not provide cover because how can you call a lightning bolt or fireball an area of effect spell if the people it strikes provide cover progressively for each other? It totally goes against the design of lightning bolt and fireball. They are made to strike multiple living targets.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re
Careful with your terminology
An spell that affects an Area is different to a spell with multiple living Targets.
Chain Lightning is a spell made to strike multiple Targets. Lightning Bolt is a spell made to affect an Area.
There is no cover bonus to the Reflex save against Chain Lightining. But Fireball is the spell used as an example for cover bonuses! And Lightning Bolt fits the description perfectly.
Your question appears to be "How can you call fireball an area of effect spell if it behaves as an 'attack which affects an area'?"
-Hyp.
Careful with your terminology
An spell that affects an Area is different to a spell with multiple living Targets.
Chain Lightning is a spell made to strike multiple Targets. Lightning Bolt is a spell made to affect an Area.
There is no cover bonus to the Reflex save against Chain Lightining. But Fireball is the spell used as an example for cover bonuses! And Lightning Bolt fits the description perfectly.
Your question appears to be "How can you call fireball an area of effect spell if it behaves as an 'attack which affects an area'?"
-Hyp.
Re
They do not use people as an example of cover for spells like Lightning Bolt of Fireball.
If I knew you personally, I would bet money that no game designer would rule another person as cover for defense against a lightning bolt or other area of effect spell.
Simple fact of the matter is that a Lightning Bolt affects everything in a straight line including objects. It does not penetrate cover from objects unless it blows right throught it.
Unless you want to start to discuss what kind of a hardness and hit points the character in questions armor and body provide, then I don't see how a person can provide cover for another person against a spell attack intended to harm multiple targets in a straight line?
They do not use people as an example of cover for spells like Lightning Bolt of Fireball.
If I knew you personally, I would bet money that no game designer would rule another person as cover for defense against a lightning bolt or other area of effect spell.
Simple fact of the matter is that a Lightning Bolt affects everything in a straight line including objects. It does not penetrate cover from objects unless it blows right throught it.
Unless you want to start to discuss what kind of a hardness and hit points the character in questions armor and body provide, then I don't see how a person can provide cover for another person against a spell attack intended to harm multiple targets in a straight line?
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re
They don't give any example of what might provide cover from spells in the text. They simply refer you to Table 8-9, which states that "behind a creature of same size" is one-half cover, for a +2 Reflex Save bonus.
True. And a creature can make a Reflex save to halve that effect. A save which is made easier if he has cover, such as described in Table 8-9.
-Hyp.
They don't give any example of what might provide cover from spells in the text. They simply refer you to Table 8-9, which states that "behind a creature of same size" is one-half cover, for a +2 Reflex Save bonus.
True. And a creature can make a Reflex save to halve that effect. A save which is made easier if he has cover, such as described in Table 8-9.
-Hyp.
Re
Cover effective against the particular attack. That is where I differ from your opinion.
I do not see a another human being who is fully affected by the spell effect as cover. Another human being does not impede in any way the straight line effect of a lightning bolt or the spread of a fireball. That is wherein the problem lies.
A human does however impede the line of effect of a physical weapon. Thus, a person can provide cover from a weapon or similar type effect.
Table 8-9 describes types of cover in a very general manner. The DM is supposed to arbitrate when and how such cover will apply using the given examples.
Cover effective against the particular attack. That is where I differ from your opinion.
I do not see a another human being who is fully affected by the spell effect as cover. Another human being does not impede in any way the straight line effect of a lightning bolt or the spread of a fireball. That is wherein the problem lies.
A human does however impede the line of effect of a physical weapon. Thus, a person can provide cover from a weapon or similar type effect.
Table 8-9 describes types of cover in a very general manner. The DM is supposed to arbitrate when and how such cover will apply using the given examples.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Re: Re
But look at the diagram of a Fireball on PHB p204. Read the description of a Spread.
The only thing that does impede the spread of a Fireball is a solid obstacle, which provides total cover. Total cover doesn't give a bonus to a Reflex save - it just prevents the spell reaching you at all.
So if the bonus only applies to Cover that "impedes the spread of a Fireball"... then the bonus never applies! Which would make it incredibly pointless using Fireball as the example of an area attack that cover can provide bonuses against...
-Hyp.
But look at the diagram of a Fireball on PHB p204. Read the description of a Spread.
The only thing that does impede the spread of a Fireball is a solid obstacle, which provides total cover. Total cover doesn't give a bonus to a Reflex save - it just prevents the spell reaching you at all.
So if the bonus only applies to Cover that "impedes the spread of a Fireball"... then the bonus never applies! Which would make it incredibly pointless using Fireball as the example of an area attack that cover can provide bonuses against...
-Hyp.
Number47
First Post
From a balance point of view, you can not give increasing cover bonuses for a line of creatures in a corridor saving against lightning bolt. That is what the spell is designed to do. I could be swayed to believe that each gains cover depending on the one creature in front of it, though.
I personally would not allow creature to provide cover from area spells unless they were acting as a wall, in other words, purposefully foregoing their save or being naturally immune. I much prefer to treat spells like lightning bolt as affecting all squares equally, check against real cover before continuing, flavor text notwithstanding.
Let's also not forget that a tower shield provides absolutely no cover (for anyone) from a fireball, if the person with the tower shield is the one being targeted. I think that is a significant factor in the debate, also.
I personally would not allow creature to provide cover from area spells unless they were acting as a wall, in other words, purposefully foregoing their save or being naturally immune. I much prefer to treat spells like lightning bolt as affecting all squares equally, check against real cover before continuing, flavor text notwithstanding.
Let's also not forget that a tower shield provides absolutely no cover (for anyone) from a fireball, if the person with the tower shield is the one being targeted. I think that is a significant factor in the debate, also.
Similar Threads
