Lightning Fury Question

[BobTheNob]

Some questions about the lightning fury paragon class for sorceror

Unstoppable Lightning (11th level): Your lightning
attacks treat each creature that has resistance
to lightning as not having that resistance. In addition,
your lightning attacks treat each creature that is
immune to lightning as instead having resistance to
lightning equal to one-half its level.

Question : This means that if I attack a level 20 creature who is immune to lighting, its get resistance 10. But do I then apply sorceror penetration (15 points at lvl 21), therefore meaning the creature has no resistance? Im guessing no, because that would mean creatures NEVER resist lightning damage, thus making the distinction irrelevant

Lightning Field (16th level): After you hit with
a lightning power, until the end of your next turn,
each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to you
or makes a melee attack against you takes 2d6 + your
Dexterity modifier lightning damage.

Question : Do I apply the penetration? (Im guessing no because technically this is not a power, and the penetration applies specifically to powers.
Question : Given this has a roll, what modifiers do I apply? Do I get implement bonus(Im guessing no : It doesnt have the implement keyword)? What about feat bonus? (Im guessing yes)
Question : Is a enemy moves into a square then attacks me, do they take the damage twice? If he attacks me twice, do they take damage 3 times? (Id probably house rule once per turn...that seems fair to me).

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Some questions about the lightning fury paragon class for sorceror

Unstoppable Lightning (11th level): Your lightning
attacks treat each creature that has resistance
to lightning as not having that resistance. In addition,
your lightning attacks treat each creature that is
immune to lightning as instead having resistance to
lightning equal to one-half its level.

Question : This means that if I attack a level 20 creature who is immune to lighting, its get resistance 10. But do I then apply sorceror penetration (15 points at lvl 21), therefore meaning the creature has no resistance? Im guessing no, because that would mean creatures NEVER resist lightning damage, thus making the distinction irrelevant

Why wouldn't you apply your resi penetration nothing in the rules indicates that. Too bad for the enemy that lightning resistance/immunity won't help them much against you.

Lightning Field (16th level): After you hit with
a lightning power, until the end of your next turn,
each enemy that moves into a square adjacent to you
or makes a melee attack against you takes 2d6 + your
Dexterity modifier lightning damage.

Question : Do I apply the penetration? (Im guessing no because technically this is not a power, and the penetration applies specifically to powers.

If it only works with powers then no - this is a feature.

Question : Given this has a roll, what modifiers do I apply? Do I get implement bonus(Im guessing no : It doesnt have the implement keyword)? What about feat bonus? (Im guessing yes)

It has not got the implement keyword and therefore what ever you can apply b/c of the implement keyword you can't. You can apply anything you can apply to a damage roll that doesn't require hitting, the implement keyword, etc.

Question : Is a enemy moves into a square then attacks me, do they take the damage twice? If he attacks me twice, do they take damage 3 times? (Id probably house rule once per turn...that seems fair to me).

Yes, 2 and 3 times. No need to house rule that. The enemy can attack someone else. It's not like you can stack this damage on your own volition.

 

[MrMyth]

Question : This means that if I attack a level 20 creature who is immune to lighting, its get resistance 10. But do I then apply sorceror penetration (15 points at lvl 21), therefore meaning the creature has no resistance? Im guessing no, because that would mean creatures NEVER resist lightning damage, thus making the distinction irrelevant

It's a tough question, and an area where the rules really aren't clear. The way I've always run it, first you check whether a monster has resistance, and then all relevant anti-resistance powers come into play. Then you check if it has immunity, and all relevant anti-immunity powers come into play. If those reduce the immunity to resistance, you don't then go back to step one and further weaken it. Both because that is how the rules seem to read to me, and it seems the intention of the rules to not have immunity get completely bypassed by the power.

 

[mneme]

I think it's fairly clear that the intent is that they stack.

If you're a multiclass sorcerer, you don't get the penetration, so there's a reason the class is written that way (plus, there are >30th level creatures).

 

[MrMyth]

I think it's fairly clear that the intent is that they stack.

Where I think it clear the intent is the opposite, which demonstrates the difficulty in judging intent.

For myself, it just doesn't make sense to have them both apply. Partly because if you accept that a Sorcerer's ability to reduce lightning resistance applies, then so does the ability of the Paragon Path to ignore it entirely. Which obviously shouldn't work.

As it is, if they wanted lightning-immune monsters to only reduce a few points of damage from lightning attacks (and it will never be more than that, unless you are fighter people completely out of your league), then I feel they would have just said you ignore both resistance and immunity entirely.

But yeah, no real clear indication in the rules either way, so go with whatever the group feels is best.

Meanwhile, regarding Lightning Field, which is actually much more straightforward to answer:

1) As Black Knight Irios mentions, Unstoppable Lightning doesn't apply because it isn't a power.

2) You don't get implement bonus. A feat damage bonus would depend on the specific wording. Most, unfortunately, again refer to giving bonuses with lightning 'powers', so they wouldn't apply. On the other hand, something like Dragonborn Frenzy says "While you are bloodied, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls." No power requirement, so something like that would apply here.

3) As worded, it can hit multiple times. Which is definitely strong, but as mentioned, monsters can always just choose to focus on someone else...

 

[Joshua Randall]

Mmm, Lightning Field was such a sweet ship upgrade in Master of Orion 2....

But in D&D, it's another one of those sloppily-worded powers that doesn't tell you how often it can apply in a given turn or round. If you interpret it as applying as many times as the enemy triggers it, then you could do some crazy stuff with that power plus forced movement.

I would probably house-rule errata it to function similarly to the revised Blood Pulse from the Blood Mage paragon path: it only triggers if the enemy willingly moves into an adjacent square.

 

[Stalker0]

I think both apply.

Your paragon power turns immunities in resistances...therefore I would assume its a resistance in all sense of the word.

Since you have an ability that negates resistance, then they would lose the resistance against you.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Mmm, Lightning Field was such a sweet ship upgrade in Master of Orion 2....

But in D&D, it's another one of those sloppily-worded powers that doesn't tell you how often it can apply in a given turn or round. If you interpret it as applying as many times as the enemy triggers it, then you could do some crazy stuff with that power plus forced movement.

I would probably house-rule errata it to function similarly to the revised Blood Pulse from the Blood Mage paragon path: it only triggers if the enemy willingly moves into an adjacent square.

I don't think you have to house rule that (I wouldn't) unless you can prove a) that it is easily outdamaging damaging zones and b) that it is too much damage for a striker. Chances are high that you can't prove one even less both. And even if you could prove a) it's a striker lvl16 feature you better get some bang for your buck and b) hell you have to beat dual wielding rangers.