Lightsaber Duels

[Brother Shatterstone]

Now we're adding modifiers to the argument.

No, only Jedi have lightsabers and that's what we are talking about.

Kicks, punches and force pushes will take combatants out.

Force strike agaist a living target is a DSP.

My style is immersive... I immerse myself in the role.

Be careful how you state that... I'm feeling offended, it seems like your suggesting that your a superior roleplayer than I, but I hope it was accidental.

 

[C. Baize]

Hey... It's not my place to say whether or not you should feel offended.
Feel free.
If so, however, you'll be taking offense where none was offered.

My statement is that I'm more about the role than the numbers. Hence, there are people who would use kicks and punches in game, rather than only attacking with the higher damage, more likely to hit weapon, in contrast with what you said earlier.

 

[Peterson]

There's where you see the difference between a Jedi, and a person playing a Jedi for the cool powerful weapon.

For the Jedi, causing your opponent to surrender is often preferable to killing them.
Honestly, I'd say that a Jedi character just going through and killing everything in their path willy nilly rather than ever attempting to bring their opponents to justice should be acquiring Dark Side points, and heading toward the Dark Side like a meteor heading to the surface.
But that's me.
Everyone has their own style of play.

This is how we ran our old D6 Star Wars games. In fact, none of the Jedi characters even started with a lightsaber, as all the players agreed that playing a Jedi wasn't about having one - it was about finding peace in violent situations.

Point of interest - one of the group's favorite PC Jedi was one who refused to carry a lightsaber - even when he got quite skilled in the ways of the Force. His trademark trick to defeating armed opponents - especially blaster-wielding ones - was to use the Force to drop the E-Paks outta their weapons. Genius.

Peterson

 

[Chaldfont]

I started a more general thread about duels here. There were some pretty cool ideas.

I agree that a lot of it has to come from the GM and Player descriptions of their actions. But I think it would be great to have the rules encourage the style of play you want. This was mentioned before by Brother Shatterstone: you almost never see unarmed attacks in D20 games, unless you have a martial artist of some kind. But you see the "sucker punch" so many times in the movies--that's how Darth Maul was able to kill Qui-gon. I'd like the rules to encourage this.

A duel like this should be a chance to pull out all sorts of cool tricks like Fighting Defensively, Combat Expertise, Disarm, Sunder, Trip, Grapple, unarmed strikes, use of high ground bonus.

I really like the Driven Before Me feat (though I might make it an option without having to take a feat--maybe its an opposed attack roll instead of a strength check, with a penalty for the defeder if he's fighting defensively or using full defense) and the idea that you have to take a 5-foot step to get your Dex bonus!

How about a feat that gives you a bonus to hit if you study your opponent (while using full defense) for a few rounds? This would model the scenes where the hero is backing off under a full onslaught and then suddenly turns the tables with a wicked blow.

 

[IcyCool]

Force strike agaist a living target is a DSP.

Move object against a living target isn't.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Move object against a living target isn't.

Nope it isn't. (Even against an unwilling target but I would rule that dropping someone from a significant height as a possible DSP though. It depends upon situation at hand.)

But even with a ton of VPs you’re still going to have to fight eventually.

 

[DnDChick]

How about a feat that gives you a bonus to hit if you study your opponent (while using full defense) for a few rounds? This would model the scenes where the hero is backing off under a full onslaught and then suddenly turns the tables with a wicked blow.

I'm certain you could modify this talent from the Smart Hero of d20 Modern into a feat that does just that:

Exploit Weakness: After 1 round of combat, the Smart hero can designate one opponent and try to find ways to gain an advantage by using brains over brawn. The Smart hero uses a move action and makes an Intelligence check (DC 15) with a bonus equal to his or her Smart level. If the check succeeds, for the rest of the combat the Smart hero uses his or her Intelligence bonus instead of either Strength or Dexterity bonus on attack rolls as the hero finds ways to outthink his opponent and notices weaknesses in his opponent’s fighting style.


... Of course, most Jedi have Dex scores higher than Intellgence, so this would be of little use as written. Some homebrewing is in order to make it effective in SWd20.

 

[Khorod]

The problem with adding ANY feats to achieve this is that characters barely get the feats to demonstrate their core fighting style as it is. What is really need is more Special Attack options... like Disarm and Bantha Rush before feats.

For example, it makes sense to me that you should be able to Bull Rush your opponent from a standing position at a -4, with a maximum push-back of 10 feet.

Once you add that, I can't think of anything off-hand that couldn't be ruled on the fly as a use of an existing power. You kick somebody to knock them on their backside? That's a Trip Attack. You swirl your weapon around for five minutes before making a serious attack? That's fighting defensively for a round. You study your opponent for a round for a +2 bonus to hit? That's a DC 22 Intelligence or Wisdom check in my games.

You really can't add feats like this to the game unless you are okay with removing other feats... or understanding that only 12th level fighters will take them.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

TAKE THAT
Prereq: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
Benefit: You can make an unexpected melee attack that surprises your opponent.
As a standard action you attack your foe in an unexpected manner without using your primary weapon. In order to use this feat you must have attacked your opponent with your primary weapon in the previous round. If armed, this attack can be unarmed. If unarmed, the attack can be a surprise kick. This attack incurs no AoO regardless of how it is attempted. The weapon must be medium sized or smaller. Examples include a sudden kick or punch in the middle of a sword melee or the use of a bottle in the middle of a fist fight. Regardless of weapon the attack deals an additional +2 damage. This attack is unexpected and negates the targets Dex, Class and Dodge bonuses. This attack can not be used to deliver poison or other “touch effects”. The feat can only be used once per day.

I like this feat, too. I think it should give an attack bonus instead of a damage bonus (say, +2). This is something the lightsaber simply doesn't provide, and it remains useful against an opponent with low Dex.

PS morethan once per day, please. At least once per encounter.

PS I'm lame, yes. I do put furniture on my maps, but I like the -2 idea for a generic forest map. Anyone know where I could get a good grid forest map from?

PS this takes creative interpretation of the D20 Modern rules, but IMO if you bluff an opponent and then use Knockout Punch... it's not a house-rule IMC, though, as it's too abusive

The problem with adding ANY feats to achieve this is that characters barely get the feats to demonstrate their core fighting style as it is. What is really need is more Special Attack options... like Disarm and Bantha Rush before feats.

These options, unfortunately, draw AoOs, and most are either suboptimal or punish you for doing them (eg drawing an AoO). I've never seen a player initiate a trip or grapple if they didn't have the feat, for instance.

 

[DnDChick]

PS I'm lame, yes. I do put furniture on my maps, but I like the -2 idea for a generic forest map. Anyone know where I could get a good grid forest map from?

Yes! And random each time! Go to a grocery store and get a roll of pennies. Scatter a handful randomly on your grid. Each penny represents a tree.