Likely poison mechanics

[Oldtimer]

You don't save; the Spined Devil makes a +9 attack against your Ref defence.

Obviously. That's to see if the spines hit you. Maybe you're poisoned (and slowed) automatically if hit. Maybe "Poison 5" means you then take 5 point of poison damage per round. But how do you remove that? On the doomspore entry, we had "save ends both conditions". What would "save" mean in this context? It can't really be a failed Fort attack, since the Spined Devil poison can't fail its Fort attack (and repeating the Reflex attack makes no sense at all).

I'm not getting all the pieces to fit here. Unless "save" is an entirely new mechanic that doesn't depend on repeating the Fort attack.

 

[Oldtimer]

So you think the Spined Rain save is +9 attack against Fort, and deals 5 points of damage + the Slowed condition?

No, the Spine Rain obviously attacks against your Reflex (it says so). I would then think that you're automatically poisoned (for 5 points of damage per round) and slowed without the need for a Fort attack.

What I don't get is how you remove the conditions. The poisons of Spined Devil and Doomspore are expressed in different ways and that doesn't really help us understand it.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

Well it may be that the spores are a weaker poison that CAN be eventually resisted, while the spines irrevocably poison you without outside interference (neutralize poison, etc). So if the poison doesn't give you an option to resist again, you're SOL without a handy-dandy potion or friendly caster.

 

[erf_beto]

Obviously. That's to see if the spines hit you. Maybe you're poisoned (and slowed) automatically if hit. Maybe "Poison 5" means you then take 5 point of poison damage per round. But how do you remove that? On the doomspore entry, we had "save ends both conditions". What would "save" mean in this context? It can't really be a failed Fort attack, since the Spined Devil poison can't fail its Fort attack (and repeating the Reflex attack makes no sense at all).

I'm not getting all the pieces to fit here. Unless "save" is an entirely new mechanic that doesn't depend on repeating the Fort attack.

I agree.

Of course, there will be a way to recover from the poison before the end of the encounter (Neutralize Poison spell will 'save' you), but perhaps the new 'save' mechanic is something related to Second Wind, or a skill check (Heal? Endurance? ) or even a Con check (modified by the half-level thingie) against a fixed DC (15+strength of the poison, in this case 5) ... Either way, it means you must stop for a few seconds to shake the effects off. I would like something like that (an active Defense), because this way players get the control back (i.e. the dice ), instead of wishing the DM rolls crap - and you only roll when the player wants to, instead of all the time...

Quick Question: how does SWSE handle poisons?

As for slow poisons, I guess they won't be coming up in combat rounds, so they will have a separate entry. So if count Olaf poisoned his guests' beverages, and a fight erupts just after dinner, everyone will fight normally... until the end of the encounter when the Count triumply claims he poisoned all the survivors! From them on, poison mechanics start to act: weakened, slowed, and other conditions apply; HP damage will be less likely to ocurr here, but every hour or day or so you get a -1 or -2 penalty to Str/Dex/Con checks (not the score itself) - when the penalty sums up to equal your ability score (or your level, for quick poisons), you're dead. I'm not saying this is how it should be done, but just that it can be done.

 

[arscott]

Don't have the book nearby, but if I remember correctly, a SWSE poison is an attack against your fortitude defense, that if successful moves you one or more steps down the condition track, (and possibly does damage as well, I'm not sure on this point).

The attack continues every round until it misses (or possibly misses twice, but I think I'm confusing this with diseases). It's also a persistant condition, which means you can't go back up along the condition track until it's treated (with a treat injury check against a fixed DC)

For the uninitiated: The Condition track is a sliding scale of penalties, which effects attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and defenses:
+0 (healthy)
-1
-2
-5
-10, and move at half speed
Unconcions


Another important thing to consider from SWSE is that some force powers and other effects are rolled against more than one target number at once:

example: the move object force power is rolled against a static DC based on the size of the object you're trying to move. But if you're trying to move a character, you also must beat that character's will defense.

So it's entirely possible that the spine rain must beat the reflex defense to hit, and then if it hits, the same roll must also beat the fortitude defense to poison the target.