D&D 5E Limitations on Plane Shift?

[Salthorae]

Why is it a problem?

Maybe it's not a problem? Depends on the table/game/DM. But there is now No chance involved.

it seems like the difficulty of getting there is part of what this DM wants to do.

And now you have DM's asking how to prevent players from going straight to a place on another plane that has been lost or forgotten in time but they know the name of it.

Previous Plane shifts were finicky by design so this wouldn't have been a problem. ON average in previous editions (2e/3.x/PF which are my wheelhouse, no idea how 4e did it) you'd end up 280 miles from your target destination.

Course you use to have the same problems with teleport and now it's either no problem or you just have to find the right formula. No chance.

 

[Celebrim]

Why is it a problem?

It removes some possibilities for adventure. It's the equivalent of fast travel in a video game. It's sounds convenient and there comes a point where the hand wave makes sense, but usually it destroys more than it adds.

The great thing about the random targeting destination is that a clever GM could always use it to the advantage of the game. You don't think this is a good time for extra-planar wilderness exploration? Then have the PC's land near enough to the destination that they can see it, and handwave away any of the unneeded travel.

But if on the other hand it served the adventure for the destination to involve a heroic journey, then you straight up had justification for it.

 

[iserith]

Maybe it's not a problem? Depends on the table/game/DM. But there is now No chance involved.

it seems like the difficulty of getting there is part of what this DM wants to do.

And now you have DM's asking how to prevent players from going straight to a place on another plane that has been lost or forgotten in time but they know the name of it.

Previous Plane shifts were finicky by design so this wouldn't have been a problem. ON average in previous editions (2e/3.x/PF which are my wheelhouse, no idea how 4e did it) you'd end up 280 miles from your target destination.

Course you use to have the same problems with teleport and now it's either no problem or you just have to find the right formula. No chance.

It removes some possibilities for adventure. It's the equivalent of fast travel in a video game. It's sounds convenient and there comes a point where the hand wave makes sense, but usually it destroys more than it adds.

The great thing about the random targeting destination is that a clever GM could always use it to the advantage of the game. You don't think this is a good time for extra-planar wilderness exploration? Then have the PC's land near enough to the destination that they can see it, and handwave away any of the unneeded travel.

But if on the other hand it served the adventure for the destination to involve a heroic journey, then you straight up had justification for it.

I think if anything it's a DM scenario design issue. You're dealing with higher-level PCs and getting around the multiverse is a thing they can often do. So there either needs to be an incentive to not go straight to the end or there has to be a built-in limitation specific to the adventure location.

 

[Lanefan]

I had to limit planeshift because the players/PCs used it to turn themselves into weekend warriors.

Now, you can only arrive at whichever of the following might apply:

a) your deity's home plane (automatically learned when you first get the spell)
b) your first point of entry to a plane* (which means you have to have been to that plane before)
c) a previously-visited temple or place otherwise consecrated to your deity
d) a place otherwise designated by your deity (this allows DMs to designate arrival points if needed)

What this means in practice is that a party can almost always use it as an escape from a dungeon or adventure but they can't so easily use it to get back; or to get there in the first place. It's worked well so far.

I've never had (and don't want to add) the costly material component.

* - and yes this means a character can use its place of birth as an arrival point, if returning to its home world

 

[Phazonfish]

I think people are ascribing a greater degree of precision to the spell than the devs intended. Sure the caster can specify a location and show up in or near the location, but near could mean "the general area you described is almost visible on the horizon". The spell description even gives an example to this effect. Even then, distance isn't the only obstacle you can throw at your PC's.

 

[Celebrim]

I think if anything it's a DM scenario design issue.

I think that's a total cop out. It's only a scenario design issue because of changes made to the spell that created scenario design issues - as the DM in the OP is rightly complaining about.

Planeshift is a 5th level spell which traditionally had enough built in limitations that it could be safely put in the hands of low level characters. Objects which granted planeshift ability or creatures that could planeshift the PC's were reasonably safe plot devices or tools for player empowerment that would allow games to move to the planes without any sort of breaking side effects.

One obvious breaking side effect of eliminating the precision limitations, is two planeshifts can now carry you anywhere in the prime material plane you want, without the problems associated with teleportation.

As for the other means of getting around the multiverse, at the level Planeshift typically becomes available, those other means also have limitations on them that prevent you from having scenario design challenges or breaking side effects.

There might conceivably be a level of play where exploration is so played out as a challenge that it is no longer relevant to play, but personally I find that whole idea rather dull and boring. Exploration is a central pillar of most RPG play, and to remove it with a mere 5th level spell doesn't strike me as the best thought out decision.

 

[generic]

I think that's a total cop out. It's only a scenario design issue because of changes made to the spell that created scenario design issues - as the DM in the OP is rightly complaining about.

Planeshift is a 5th level spell which traditionally had enough built in limitations that it could be safely put in the hands of low level characters. Objects which granted planeshift ability or creatures that could planeshift the PC's were reasonably safe plot devices or tools for player empowerment that would allow games to move to the planes without any sort of breaking side effects.

In 5e, it's a 7th level spell, I believe.

 

[Celebrim]

In 5e, it's a 7th level spell, I believe.

Hmmm, it appears teleport is now (purely) a 7th level spell as well.

So I guess you unrestrict them but then find that you now have to take the toys away so that players can't use them. I guess that's one partial solution to the problem.

 

[iserith]

I think that's a total cop out. It's only a scenario design issue because of changes made to the spell that created scenario design issues - as the DM in the OP is rightly complaining about.

Planeshift is a 5th level spell which traditionally had enough built in limitations that it could be safely put in the hands of low level characters. Objects which granted planeshift ability or creatures that could planeshift the PC's were reasonably safe plot devices or tools for player empowerment that would allow games to move to the planes without any sort of breaking side effects.

One obvious breaking side effect of eliminating the precision limitations, is two planeshifts can now carry you anywhere in the prime material plane you want, without the problems associated with teleportation.

As for the other means of getting around the multiverse, at the level Planeshift typically becomes available, those other means also have limitations on them that prevent you from having scenario design challenges or breaking side effects.

There might conceivably be a level of play where exploration is so played out as a challenge that it is no longer relevant to play, but personally I find that whole idea rather dull and boring. Exploration is a central pillar of most RPG play, and to remove it with a mere 5th level spell doesn't strike me as the best thought out decision.

I really think it may help to step out of the edition you're playing and examine this from the perspective the edition under discussion. It looks like you're operating off some bad assumptions and information that does not pertain to D&D 5e's version of the spell.

 

[Celebrim]

I really think it may help to step out of the edition you're playing and examine this from the perspective the edition under discussion. It looks like you're operating off some bad assumptions and information that does not pertain to D&D 5e's version of the spell.

I'm happy to use quotes from the 5e version of the spell to point out my problems with the spell in its current form.