Line of Sight & Line of Effect, tied at the hip or not?

[Maddach Urquhart]

Which grants all opponents of the blinded creature total concealment against that creature, which is a -5 to attacks. Having a minus 10 to perception checks does not mean you take minus 10 to attack rolls, in addition to the total concealment.

 

[malraux]

It says right in the PH that the Magic Missile is affected by the attack roll to see if you hit or miss, go to page 274, to see the description of ATTACK ROLL:

Roll 1D20, add the following: The Base Attack Bonus- Situational Attack Modifers (eg: Conditions and what not) Page 279 (when it's actually 277 for conditions) - Bonuses and penalties.

Goto Page 277.. What's on that page?

Blinded.


It is affected!

The MM listed in the PH is errated.

 

[Saagael]

The MM listed in the PH is errated.

This would be an important thing to be on the same page about.

 

[fba827]

It says right in the PH that the Magic Missile is affected by the attack roll to see if you hit or miss, go to page 274, to see the description of ATTACK ROLL:

Roll 1D20, add the following: The Base Attack Bonus- Situational Attack Modifers (eg: Conditions and what not) Page 279 (when it's actually 277 for conditions) - Bonuses and penalties.

Goto Page 277.. What's on that page?

Blinded.


It is affected!

It appears that you are referring to the original (unerrataed version) of Magic Missile in which case you do need an attack roll to use the power. However, the attack roll would only take a -5 penalty for the target having total concealment (the result of the attacker being blinded).

You can still target him despite being blinded because you can hear the target moving about any making combat noises to know where they are (aka, lack of sight does not remove your other senses or gudiance that your allies might give you).

(unless the target is being stealthy, in which case you need to make a perception check first to figure out where they are, and that perception check is at a penalty for having lost your sight).

 

[Minifig]

The MM listed in the PH is errated.

You still have to roll to see if it hits or misses.. otherwise that would be unfair as it's a free hit, on an at will power and no other classes get anything of that sort. It'd be over powered.

 

[Saagael]

You still have to roll to see if it hits or misses.. otherwise that would be unfair as it's a free hit, on an at will power and no other classes get anything of that sort. It'd be over powered.

Except that the errata'd version doesn't require an attack roll, and automatically does a smaller amount of damage.

 

[malraux]

You still have to roll to see if it hits or misses.. otherwise that would be unfair as it's a free hit, on an at will power and no other classes get anything of that sort. It'd be over powered.

No, you don't have to make an attack roll with MM currently. There are several wizard powers that unerringly target opponents.

 

[fba827]

(ignoring magic missile or specific powers, and back to the OP's original question)

visual signs are not the only way you target something. you also have your other senses (hearing, smell, etc).

There are sounds of combat, shifts in air, the smell of an unwashed carrior crawler. that is part of why you don't need line of sight (only line of effect), because you have other senses to tell you where someone/something is.

You also have allies who might also be giving you guidance as to where something is (maybe you hear them fighting something, maybe they flat out yell and tell you "X yards at 11 o'clock ..." etc.) but a battlefield is far from silent or odorless.

Even from other PCs even if the players aren't actually saying anything, there are surely some shouts of pain or clang of sword on armor, etc.

So, basically, even without sight, you have other senses that help you target.

 

[DracoSuave]

Dear sir, and or madams.

Go to Page 273 of your PHB, and read the section on Line of Effect. Second Paragraph of that section specifically. It's on the right hand side of the page.

Threads asking for discussion on this matter can be resolved easily by looking at that passage.

If you're not willing to read it, I'll sum it up for you.

No, they are not.

Do not take my word for it, read it for yourself.

A hint for future threads like this: It could have been resolved by reading the PHB entry on Line of Effect. This thread's question is explicitly answered there.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

You still have to roll to see if it hits or misses.. otherwise that would be unfair as it's a free hit, on an at will power and no other classes get anything of that sort. It'd be over powered.

Nope on all points, the power is Effect 2+int(+enhancement) going up to 3 and 5+int at paragon and epic tiers, so hardly game breaking.