List of broken PrCs

[yennico]

Is there any list which lists "broken" PrCs ?

I want to start a new campaign D&D 3.0 with low magic and I did not want any IMHO too powerful or IMHO munchkin PrC like Incantatrix, Arcane Trickster or Archmage.
Which PrCs as powerful as these listed PrCs ?
Which other PrCs are IMHO so unbalancing a game ?

Just my 2 cents
yennico

 

[Tyrrell]

Well obviously this is a matter that is subject to a great deal of personal opinion. Adding to your list, it's my opinion that the red wizard is a bit too powerful and that the hospitalar is too powerful if it is taken by a cleric.

I don't think that the arcane trickster is too powerful. The trickster has to take levels in a non spellcasting class in order to meet the prestige class requirements. This lowers the character's casting level and highest level of spells.

(If you want low magic you might consider the spell system from FFG's Midnight as an alternative to standard D&D magic.)

 

[kreynolds]

A "low magic" game, you say? Start with throwing out all the spellcasting prestige classes then.

 

[kreynolds]

Actually, in all seriousness, something just occured to me...I never realized how awesome the Forsaker would be in a low magic game until now. Maybe a little too good?

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'm not sure its a good idea to ask other people what "broken PrCs" are...while some are more powerful than others, it just all depends on DM, players, and style of play...*shrugs* I've never really had problems with players as Archmages or other "broken" PrCs...but I guess I have good players.

 

[Piratecat]

Good luck powering up your forsaker when there aren't many magic items.

In my experience, the best way to run a low-magic campaign is to require that any spellcaster have an equal or greater number of levels in a non-spellcasting class. Thus, you'll have a 10th lvl fighter next to a fighter 5/cleric 5 and a wizard 5/rogue 5. It's an easy way to power down the presence of magic without a whole lot of house rules; with this system, no one will be able to raise the dead until 18th lvl.

Thanks again to Col. Hardisson for the idea.

Remember, you'll need to use lower CR monsters to challenge people, because the lack of magic items and simple utility spells will have a far-reaching effect.

 

[gariig]

I would tend to say drop all PrCs in general. Your beef seems to be with giving spellcasters spiffy abilities and spells. Also, there are many overpowered FIGHTNG PrCs. The ones that give nifty abilities AND full BAB. To be trueful, you can almost say any PrC except for a handful are overpowered as compared to a straight core class. Why play Ftr20 when you can do Ftr10/WpnMst 10? You give up feats for some nifty abilities.

So with all this rambling, I would just leave it core class only. The other option is to get a setting like Midnight where all the balancing has been done for you.

KReynolds idea of splitting casting levels is pretty good idea, too.

Gariig

 

[Pax]

I would tend to say drop all PrCs in general. Your beef seems to be with giving spellcasters spiffy abilities and spells. Also, there are many overpowered FIGHTNG PrCs. The ones that give nifty abilities AND full BAB. To be trueful, you can almost say any PrC except for a handful are overpowered as compared to a straight core class. Why play Ftr20 when you can do Ftr10/WpnMst 10? You give up feats for some nifty abilities.

Actually, that's the point of a Prestige Class. They are more powerful, in return for having entry requirements ...

ANYone can take levels of Fighter.

Only some people can (for example) take levels of Lasher.

Ergo, Lasher should be slightly better than Fighter, overall.

The catch is, the balanced PrCs typically make you very, very focussed in one specific trick, style, theme, etc. Or (as in the case of the Lasher) take a sub-optimal concept and makeit viable to the equal of, or slightly superior to, a generic ordinary tactic (i.e., using a whip, rather than standard longsword-and-shield).

 

[Celebrim]

Pax: Well, that is the theory at least, but in practice it doesn't much work that way.

If the entry requirements are themselves pretty much something you might have taken anyway, or at the least something you can get a good benifit from taking without sacrificing something of great importance, then having requirements aren't much of a balancing factor at all.

'Ergo', indeed. Exactly what is the basis of the conclusion that if only some people can take it perforce it must give you more advantages than training that anyone could experience? That is a design decision, not something that is forced on you by the self-evident logic of it.

And as far as specialization goes, specializing is itself always a means of improving ones power in an RPG (and to a certain extent in any resource allocation game and life in general). The specialist benifits from having some defence or attack of such extraordinary power that challenges he expects to encounter cannot resist or overcome it. He mitigates his weaknesses by using tactics to force his opponents to fight the battles that he wants to fight. The generalist has a much harder time, for while he doesn't have the weaknesses of the specialist - he almost certainly will be disadvantaged in something versus everything he faces. Even the party structure breaksdown along lines of specialization. Which party is more capable, the one with a 8th level fighter, 8th level rogue, 8th level cleric, 8th level wizard, or the party with 4 2nd level fighters/2nd level rogues/2nd level clerics/2nd level wizards? So it is not like you are giving up anything by specializing, the more so because in the case of the sort of PrC's that are actually taken they are specializations that PC's would have taken anyway whether PrC's existed or not.

Basically, if you have a problem with unbalanced PrC's throw out pretty much all of them with Fighter BAB progression or full caster spell progression. The 'broken' list is a sublist of that list and probably starts with OotBI, Templar, Red Wizard, Archmage, Frenzied Beserker, Weapon Master...

 

[thorimar]

Archer PrC

Short on time right now, but I would start my list with OotBI and follow that quickly with Deepwoods Sniper. And I would certainly forbid stacking those classes. It is a sick combo that a co-player is considering. He will be a demi-god at ftr5/OotBI 3/DWS 3.

As for a low magic world, I am playing in a campaign where the church is the law and magic is outlawed, including divine magic. Needless to say at first level when my cleric got pounded, but was staying as a guest of a high church official, it took me a while to heal up. We have fallen into using magic in the wilderness, but if we go back to a city it will be no-magic-in-publlic again. Pretty hairy for sure. My other campaign I am a dwarven fgtr/clrc who is headed toward a Prc that is all about magic item creation. Talk about opposite ends of the spectrum!