4E List of Potential New Martial Practices

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Right, maybe as an extreme you can 'temporarily sacrifice' your capability, like your troupe is decimated and must regroup, but you get an automatic success as they put up a stubborn rear-guard action to allow the refugees to escape. Later you can accept some sort of cost to undo that, a treasure parcel, a personal debt, etc.

You could even, in the right situation, make it an 'ultimate sacrifice', the 300 are wiped out to a man, but the great evil army is turned back at the pass! They're gone, you won't get them back, but of course you've created the basis for a new legend.
I think you might be targeting more than 1 success on your skill challenge ;) and actually that is possible to do ie to spend more.

The prices I am setting up are assuming a single SC success and flavor wise I assume most of the time there is a SANE call for a retreat and avoiding the slaughter thing (remember the word decimated meant lost 1 in 10) . In some sense it is a part of the deal of having the practice. I presume a somewhat nebulous membership you are in theory always loosing some and always inpiring new ones to take their place

Other actions in the skill challenge can also affect the in story impact on the troops, finding vulnerabilities of the enemy via application of skill and the like. Distractions and the like so the bad guy doesnt follow through on them. An over all failed skill challenge might affect them to the negative.

Your troops are a resource largely based on reputation and recovery so the "wont get them back" is analogous to you no longer have the practice anymore.

Perhaps with the price to recover based on the level you purchase it for good measure.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I am currently thinkig of actually writing this as a Warlord specific practice. Just as a Bard gets their specific rituals.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
we could look at real world deaths by war but I am not sure they correlate too well no body in the civil war had anything like a cleric to turn wounded and dying or afflicted reliably into going home to their family instead of dying of disease after the fact ofcourse IRL the american civil war had 1 in 4 never making it home.

Of course that was on average with 85 percent or so being lost dead/wounded/missing when a battle goes very very badly. Captured is often lumped in with missing.

The civil war was considered a very vicious one where technology leaps had disrupted military practice. Ie there wasn't much military history to base responses to remington repeaters and the like on.

I think having random descriptions of results based on how much you HAVE to pay from the skill check might possibly allow you to spend more to improve the in story fiction.
 
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Yeah, after thinking it through and doing some exercises with it, I think the basic 4e SC approach, with a few extrapolations, is still the best one. Something like the 'clock' approach of BitD isn't bad either, perhaps, but I like the flexibility of having both successes and failures both tallied. It gives the GM more room to work in interesting stuff.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
A good alternative name for practices?

What might be a good alternative term for practices? So far arts are the only thing popping to mind. Changing the feat name to Martial Artistry and the Warlords class feature to Art of War. And given that access to Martial Techniques could be via The art of the Sensei and we have Library Arts in there. It looks like I have been moving that direction for a while.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
What might be a good alternative term for practices? So far arts are the only thing popping to mind. Changing the feat name to Martial Artistry and the Warlords class feature to Art of War. And given that access to Martial Techniques could be via The art of the Sensei and we have Library Arts in there. It looks like I have been moving that direction for a while.
Practical Arts
as distinguished from Fine Arts or Magical/Mystical Arts

If I am going to generate an OGL compatible presentation might as well think about things like this.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Here is a cost chart I handwaved above

Marshal Troops

Flexible Cost Chart
Make a history check to determine the resolution of the troops activity

31 or more 1/50 the cost of a magic item at the level of the challenge you are facing
21 to 30 1/40th the cost of a magic item.
11 to 20 or more its 1/30 the cost of a magic item
10 or less cost is 1/20 the cost of a magic item

Optional : natural 1 and its a full 1/10th the price of a magic item at that level
natural 20 and its effectively free


One other thing I am thinking is we need to mention the various kinds of adventure / skill challenge things that Minion Troops can be typically leveraged for. such as forward observers, with an emphasis on these are not Hero Replacements.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Marshal Troops it occurs to me rather deals with the "Warlords should be able to interact with masses of troops" thought which I have heard expressed more than a couple of times.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I am thinking of giving classes favored practices...

Instead of making a few of them free on a given day like the Bard does with rituals (or what could be seen as practices made
into features with the Skald) giving a +2 on any use of the class favored ones.

I am already re-costing practices here so it seems more reasonable keep the skill check valuable and in place of class specific rituals/practices use this.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I am thinking of giving classes favored practices...

Instead of making a few of them free on a given day like the Bard does with rituals (or what could be seen as practices made
into features with the Skald) giving a +2 on any use of the class favored ones.

I am already re-costing practices here so it seems more reasonable keep the skill check valuable and in place of class specific rituals/practices use this.
Still tempted to keep Marshal Troops as a Warlord only however.

Although if you have Martial Prodigy you should be able to learn any even if you lack the prerequisites for them it would make the feat start to have some actual value as it stands it sucks.

How in Helena Montana did they think practiced prodigy was worth a feat??????
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It just occurred to me ok more humor than not

Drink Em Under the Tables

You can use Endurance/Con in place of Charisma for certain forms of Diplomacy ... for Dwarves this can take a while ;)
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Class Favored Practical Arts / Skillful Methods

Monk - Warlord - Bard/Skald - Fighter - Rogue - Ranger - Berserk/Barbarian

Monks Inner Peace
In spite of its arguably misidentified source, the Monk class is considered fully martial for purposes of these rules, it was in a true sense the original D&D martial artist and that D&D monk is in fact inspiration for many of these arts and the original practices, and arguably the martial power source itself.
Favored Arts
  • Art of the Sensei
  • Animal tongues
  • Fake Death
  • Distance runner
  • Oath of Independence
  • Parkour
  • Transcendental meditation
  • Tree top runner
Warlords - Art of War
You gain the bonus feat "Martial Artistry" and may learn and perform martial practices thereby.
Additionally you have mastered one 1st-level favored Warlord practice—plus one other 1st-level practice of your choice, and possess a strategy book.
Favored Arts
  • Blood Bond
  • Battle Speech
  • Heritage Claim
  • Hospitality
  • Influence of Station
  • Marshal Troops
  • Preys Instinct: Double Back
  • Sleep of Kings
Fighter - The First Martial Class
This is the class which arguably in the earliest version of D&D - was the sole representative of Martial I highly recommend they be given a decent number of trained skills as a factor of rebalancing the non-combat arena of your game. (Automatic Athletics plus 4 others would be comparable to the Wizards) and perhaps since the idea is to balance issues any character with fewer skills pre-racial should get 4 trained plus 1 defined by class.
Favored Arts
  • Battle Speech
  • Distance Runner
  • Heroes Shout
  • Heroic Exertion
  • Hurl into Space
  • Oath of Truth
  • Blood Demand
  • Sweat it Out
  • Wrestle with Death
Skalds Practical Options
Bards may choose between rituals and practices in their class feature. And may select practices in place of his free rituals and gain the following favored practices
Favored Arts

  • Hospitality
  • Influence of Authority
  • Mimicry
  • Library Arts
  • Method Acting
  • Makeup / Disguise
Rogues Nimble Climber
Rogues gain the Parkour practice by default : Rogues arguably were the original adept climbers not enabling Dexterity climbing seems to have been something of an error.
Favored Arts:
  • Cold Reading
  • Disguise
  • Fourth Dimensional Packing
  • Hypnosis
  • Parkour
  • Preys Instinct : Obscure Trail
  • Preys Instinct : Double Back
  • The Perfect Price
Rangers In Tune With Nature
Rangers may pick 2 of their favored that they know for free at level 1. And one additional when they reach paragon and Epic levels.
Favored Arts
  • Animal Tongues
  • Beast Bond
  • Bringing in the Herd: Mounts
  • Bringing in the Herd: Swarm
  • Double Back
  • Hunters Mind
  • Long Distance Runner
  • Messenger Birds
  • Obscure Trail
  • Peerless Tracker
  • Trackers Eye
Barbarian/Berserk
Berserk is a Fighting method and Barbarian is a Culture / Background - yes D&D always gets this wrong and usually in multiple ways.
This is probably not the place to fix that but rather to allow flexible interesting interpretations so we get Ancestor Dreams alongside Conans Riddle of Steel and Cu Cuhlaines Heroes Shout and Gilgameshes Distance Runner.
Favored Arts
  • Ancestral Dreaming
  • Beast Bond
  • Riddle of Steel
  • Bringing in the Herd: Mounts
  • Heroes Shout
  • Hunters Mind
  • Distance Runner
  • Obscure Trail
  • Peerless Tracker
  • Trackers Eye
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Marshal Troops and Gather Troops

I am considering whether to separate out the act of gathering troops from guiding them in battle.

Then the act of gathering them might be well any of several practices (or even just skillful action used towards the challenge where failures might impair the quality of the results and challenge over all)

You could use The Art of the Sensei to turn citizenry into surprisingly armed and committed troops with home ground advantage. (You could then use Marshaling with its history based check to represent using them to their best value)

You could use the Trained Preparedness art
to bring personal loyal troops who arguably respond perfectly to your marshalling on the scene suddenly from anywhere as though you had already done all the legwork to arrange their arrival just when and where you need it.

It seems to me since 2 actions are involved there should be twice the price and twice the impact. But what if there arent well 2 actions where you bring your troops along? Effectively yes you did gather them back within the domain of influence. So most of the time its only one? How to rationalize and balance this.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I am considering whether to separate out the act of gathering troops from guiding them in battle.

Then the act of gathering them might be well any of several practices (or even just skillful action used towards the challenge where failures might impair the quality of the results and challenge over all)

You could use The Art of the Sensei to turn citizenry into surprisingly armed and committed troops with home ground advantage. (You could then use Marshaling with its history based check to represent using them to their best value)

You could use the Trained Preparedness art
to bring personal loyal troops who arguably respond perfectly to your marshaling on the scene suddenly from anywhere as though you had already done all the legwork to arrange their arrival just when and where you need it.

It seems to me since 2 actions are involved there should be twice the price and twice the impact. But what if there arent well 2 actions where you bring your troops along? Effectively yes you did gather them back within the domain of influence. So most of the time its only one? How to rationalize and balance this.
One solution might be to give Troops the first time after Gathered via the explicit Gather Troops or similarly a "Fresh Troops" effectively an extra success (or the Marshal Troops is effectively free up to the amount paid). when they are used via Marshal Troops thus it is as effective as might be gained by alternative methods.

Note to self: This is a reminder that Marshal means "to bring together and order in an appropriate or effective way" - gather troops would be redundant if anything you could argue having the act of coordinating or leading the troops in a way that optimizes their functionality subsequently could be distinct from marshaling however since other definitions of mashal include lead solicitously . -- marshal is the perfect word, for gathering and guiding those troops.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Alongside the concrete uses of the practical arts, I am thinking I may include example skill challenges and how they might interact with them. As well as a Without the Art Sidebar section for each.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Stream of consciousness attempt to spark new ideas

Wrestling Death is a bit of gateway idea as I try to figure out epic practices which involve branching into mythic things which demi-gods do.

I sort of thought of having some sort of story side gateway on wrestling death where you learn combat medic or the like and start seeing death around the edges of your natural perception start imagining/seeing shadows over the dying and similar

What about the other horsemen? Fighting/adventuring types have more intimate connections to death than they do disease and starvation but then again what about War? or isnt disease just a dark side of Nature?

In Gilgamesh we have a rather extreme case of wrestling/intimidate forces of nature with physical prowess they amount to things, like volcanos, storms and such
- this is also Akin to somebody like Pecos Bill lassoing Volcanos.

What if adventuring in elemental planes and fighting such things awakens the perception wrt to more normal manifestations. Can you diplomacy the thunderstorm into breaking the drought? Do you end up in battle with desert demons by doing so?

Do heroes end up fighting elementals because they change as they become epic or does there own more potent presence bring physicality to otherwise mystic and symbolic things?

Splitting the mountain allows one egress/exit but what about constructing and levying ... Can I build that mountain chain when I tamed the earth horse that primordial elemental I ride as a mount now.

Big side effects like big area of effects are the stuff of epic (D&D keeping things to fit on a battle board fights me)

Engineering (the replacement for Dungeoneering) skills and Bluff gives one the Trojan Horse.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Another idea: Instant or On the fly Practices.

Where this is coming from:
There is another game (one brought up in the 4e descendents thread I think) where you were assumed on good rolls to actually be learning the thing you were doing.
also
It has been pointed out that many or even most of the practices could manifest as simply action declarations during a skill challenge where someone decides to exert for maximum/assured effect.

In effect one could dynamically learn practices in a similar fashion as a part of the normal adventuring, using and doing things figuring out interesting situational ways to solve problems with skills and you hit one that feels to really fit your character and after exerting as mentioned above you later formalize it and spend karma on it to make it reliable and part of your characters definition.... it then becomes a practice.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Another idea: Instant or On the fly Practices.

Where this is coming from:
There is another game (one brought up in the 4e descendents thread I think) where you were assumed on good rolls to actually be learning the thing you were doing.
also
It has been pointed out that many or even most of the practices could manifest as simply action declarations during a skill challenge where someone decides to exert for maximum/assured effect.

In effect one could dynamically learn practices in a similar fashion as a part of the normal adventuring, using and doing things figuring out interesting situational ways to solve problems with skills and you hit one that feels to really fit your character and after exerting as mentioned above you later formalize it and spend karma on it to make it reliable and part of your characters definition.... it then becomes a practice.
I find myself coming up with ideas that will port to magical rituals in this process.
 

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