Little rules-tweak to encourage monks to use weapons occasionally

[Pielorinho]

Well, I'd really say that the possibility of having a mastertwok bonus to hit would be reason enough. Or magic enchancement bonuses. Or special material qualities. Or alignment other than lawful. Or reach. Or magic weapon enhancements. Or you don't want to touch what you're attacking. Or you want to do slashing or peircing damage instead of bludgeoning. You said you were looking for a rules light method, but the things you have proposed are pretty rules heavy with far reaching consequences.

All of these things persuade a monk either to use a specific weapon all the time, or to use weapons against specific nonhuman opponents, neither of which is what I'm aiming for. I'm aiming for an outcome that persuades monks to give weapons a go on some occasions when fighting other monks.

And they're not at all rules-heavy: in fact, all they do is (in the one case) remove an exception to the rules under certain circumstances, and (in the other case) change a weapon's size. These are very rules-light changes.

If you give anyone with IAS AOO's againts unarmed attacks from those with IAS, you're DESTROYING monks. Any fighter with a decent dex can use 2 feats to become a monk killer. IAS and Combat Reflexes means with a 14 dex you get 3 AOO's a round. Monk attacks that fighter unarmed and gets hammered.

Note my other proposal, that unarmed disarm attempts are much more effective than previously. In such a case, the monk will probably want to disarm the fighter. I consider results that encourage nontraditional attacks to be beneficial.

Monks with Combat Reflexes fight each other unarmed and get AOO's every attack. It becomes a mess.

Nope: that's why it only works when you're wielding a melee weapon. When you're unarmed, this grants no changes in the AoOs you may take against other unarmed fighters.

In fact, you are pretty much requiring monks to use weapons instead of unarmed attacks, instead of making weapons a valid choice.

Not, for the reasons I stated, at all. This is a change that would only happen in specific circumstances: when fighting another monk, or when fighting a fighter who's spent a feat to make it happen. When fighting another monk, you can lessen the difference between your skill levels by picking up a weapon; when fighting a fighter, you will find yourself at a serious disadvantage, and will need to do something to counter this disadvantage.

Daniel

 

[Aaron L]

Of course it's your call But I still think it's doing a disservice to monks against fighters with UAS. Losing flurry of blows is a big hit.

 

[Pielorinho]

Well, like I said, I'm not expecting to see a monk character IMC for a few more months, so it'll be awhile before I try it out. Thanks for the feedback, though!
Daniel

 

[Plane Sailing]

You could try the option of allowing monks to use their unarmed damage with *any* of their melee monk weapons - so the 10th level monk whips out his nunchaku and does 1d10 with them rather than the 1d6 that a peasant would.

nb my brand-new 1st level human monk used one of his valuable feats for a martial weapon proficiency - glaive. As a 1d10/x3 reach weapon it gives him good first strike capability, plus when someone closes in he can fight completely effectively with his feet even though his hands are full with the glaive (and if they disengage he gets an AoO on them because of the reach). At 2nd level he gets Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat, giving him excellent zone of control. I could see this weapon staying useful for him throughout his career.

(not quite the issue you're talking about, but I thought it was interesting enough to raise)

Cheers

 

[Gaiden]

Maybe you should just switch your perspective. Most kung fu movies I see are not representing the D&D monk when they say monk. Quite the contrary, they are representing a fighter or some multiclassed monk in a society that has forbid the use of weapons. A true monk would wipe the floor with all of 'em taking into consideration the societal constraints. If you consider that the majority of martial arts fighters are actually fighters and not monks, it helps explain why most would go for the weapon - it is simply more effective. Also, in real life, the concept of reach is not limited to 5' and 10' and the difference between a sharp weapon and a dull one means a lot more.

I think the easiest thing to do here is just engineer your NPC's so that they are majority fighter (either in number or level). This overrides the need to do any changes to the rules and actually matches mechanics to description. Also, keep in mind, that this whole debate only matters if we are talking about a society that has forbid the use of weapons. If everyone has a sword at their belt, most of the fighters will have no need to have learned IUS.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've been considering the possibility of making reach less granular in the following way:

Forget AoO from reach

If your weapon is longer than them, you get +4 attack. If your weapon is shorter than your opponent you get -4 attack.

Thus if two monks are fighting and one picks up a sword the other one has a great incentive to pick up a sword himself (or better yet a spear) because it gives you much more offensive flexibility and makes it harder for you to be attacked yourself.

I think it is quite a neat idea and should work fairly simply, it might meet your requirements too.

Cheers