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Loki! (spoiler thread)


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Retreater

Legend
Episode 5 has about done me in. I've tried to watch it twice and fallen asleep both times. I guess there's something so insidiously boring about it. I had to ask my wife what happened just so we can finally move past it.
 



MarkB

Legend
Finally finished Loki (I'm slow at watching series). Man, that took a bad turn. A completely unsatisfying ending, nonsensical info-dump from the main villain (that wasn't even foreshadowed), had to Google what the reactions of the main characters meant.
In what way wasn't it foreshadowed? We were told about the Time War in the first episode. The only part that wasn't mentioned was that the war was between multiple versions of the same person.
 

Retreater

Legend
In what way wasn't it foreshadowed? We were told about the Time War in the first episode. The only part that wasn't mentioned was that the war was between multiple versions of the same person.
The villain's motivations were not foreshadowed. Nothing about his goals were even hinted at. There was nothing about him wanting to meet Loki - the opposite, he was trying to stop him for 5 out of 6 episodes. There was no hint that he was growing tired of watching the timelines.
I wouldn't have been satisfied with that even if it were a session of D&D I was running.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
There was nothing about him wanting to meet Loki - the opposite, he was trying to stop him for 5 out of 6 episodes. There was no hint that he was growing tired of watching the timelines.

If you want a superhero show that is about the villain, DC's really the place to go. The show is called "Loki" not "The Man At the End of Time," so it is about Loki. Marvel shows are about the heroes. The villains are there to be defeated, not to have their psychology explored. (Spider-Man movies are somewhat the exception to this tendency)

About how Kang Who Remains wanted to stop Loki - he actually didn't want to stop Loki. But Loki, a generally distrustful person, can't just be called in and given a job offer. If anything is too easy, Loki gets suspicious, and backs away - because if Loki were to offer you something easily, it would be because Loki is setting you up for betrayal. Kang used this baroque approach of feigned resistance because the way to make Loki show up somewhere is to tell Loki he cannot go there.
 

Rabulias

Legend
If you want a superhero show that is about the villain, DC's really the place to go. The show is called "Loki" not "The Man At the End of Time," so it is about Loki. Marvel shows are about the heroes. The villains are there to be defeated, not to have their psychology explored. (Spider-Man movies are somewhat the exception to this tendency)

About how Kang Who Remains wanted to stop Loki - he actually didn't want to stop Loki. But Loki, a generally distrustful person, can't just be called in and given a job offer. If anything is too easy, Loki gets suspicious, and backs away - because if Loki were to offer you something easily, it would be because Loki is setting you up for betrayal. Kang used this baroque approach of feigned resistance because the way to make Loki show up somewhere is to tell Loki he cannot go there.
This. And because Kang has access to all of history, he knows just what steps to take and how much pressure to apply to get them to that point where he presents his offer to them. So there was no real danger of Loki or Sylvie being killed or never arriving at Kang's citadel.

Edit: And the main point of Loki has been said to be about identity. This was a great zoom-in on, as Mobius puts it "what makes Loki tick?" Plot-wise, the show was setting up the multiverse and Kang for future MCU use (and keeping Loki around because he's fun ;) ), so I can see if you were looking for a great story, you might be let down.
 

MarkB

Legend
This. And because Kang has access to all of history, he knows just what steps to take and how much pressure to apply to get them to that point where he presents his offer to them. So there was no real danger of Loki or Sylvie being killed or never arriving at Kang's citadel.
And it could also be seen as a quality-control process. The Lokis who could make it all the way through to Kang's fortress are the ones he wants.
 

Finally finished Loki (I'm slow at watching series). Man, that took a bad turn. A completely unsatisfying ending, nonsensical info-dump from the main villain (that wasn't even foreshadowed), had to Google what the reactions of the main characters meant.
Yep. The ending was disappointing. The villain didn't connect to anything, he was just some random guy we were just introduced. Apparently to some it mattered that he was known from the comics, but but such knowledge really wouldn't be required.

And as a 'big reveal' after the perilous journey it just was lacking. The original story was that TVA was set up by all-knowing Time Keepers to prune timelines or else something horrible would happen. But then it is revealed that this is a lie! The heroes (or "heroes") journey to the end of time to find the truth. There it is revealed in a long exposition monologue that actually that TVA was set up by all-knowing random person to prune timelines or else something horrible would happen. 🤷

Don't get me wrong, I liked the journey, but the last episode was meh and rather undermined the experience as a whole.
 
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Zaukrie

New Publisher
Gotta admit, if you don't know the comics..... That ending was just ok. It was a long speech, which is kind of mediocre story telling. There were good parts for sure, but it was confusing, at best, if you don't know the comics.
 

Janx

Hero
Gotta admit, if you don't know the comics..... That ending was just ok. It was a long speech, which is kind of mediocre story telling. There were good parts for sure, but it was confusing, at best, if you don't know the comics.
I don't know the comics. I wasn't confused.

Yes this was just some random guy behind it all. They foreshadowed that with Loki's disbelief in the lizard people setting up the TVA myth. Loki certainly challenged it, the whole series. So the big reveal was either gonna be Loki was Wrong or Loki was Right. If Loki is right, what other possibility for who's behind the TVA than some random guy could there be? Even if it was Mobius. That is still, some random guy.

Heck, the icing on the cake is all those lizard statues became Kangs. So the next go-around Loki that comes through and disbelieves, will be like "so you expect me to believe this is all run by some guy named Kang?"

It was a long speech, and that is risky for pacing and storytelling. Kang was running the clock. literally. What else would have worked here? Fruitless fighting? He disabused them of that early on.

The thing I found lacking was the lack of closure. Mobius doesn't get a jetski. Loki doesn't get his goal, love, or reward. Silvie got her revenge. That's it. One could argue this is the true Middle Climax. the cliffhanger and fall. That Loki now knows himself, and next season will be him climbing toward victory for the Climactic ending.

Guess we'll see next year.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
The thing I found lacking was the lack of closure. Mobius doesn't get a jetski. Loki doesn't get his goal, love, or reward. Silvie got her revenge. That's it. One could argue this is the true Middle Climax. the cliffhanger and fall. That Loki now knows himself, and next season will be him climbing toward victory for the Climactic ending.

Yeah, narratively speaking, the biggest overall problem the MCU generally has is that its stories are always so busy setting up other stories, that it often misses satisfying beats. The entire last episode had the purpose of setting up Kang (for Loki Season 2, and for appearances in movies), rather than what's dramatically interesting for Loki.
 


Gotta admit, if you don't know the comics..... That ending was just ok. It was a long speech, which is kind of mediocre story telling. There were good parts for sure, but it was confusing, at best, if you don't know the comics.

I know nothing about Kang from the comics, and only his basic background info that I read in spoiler articles, and I had no problems with the entire series or the final episode. There was also the fact that for many months before this it was publicly known that Jonathan Majors would be playing Kang in the 3rd Ant-man movie. So as soon as he was on-screen in the final episode, boom, instant connection to the rest of the MCU. My only question about his character, since there are about 7 movies coming out between this and Ant-man 3, is he making any cameos before becoming the main villain?

As for the ending, it seems the Marvel series are made to be more thought-provoking than the movies, which means more talking and less action. I am good with the movies being all the popcorn action, while the series make us listen and think. Besides, the series have enough time on-screen to do that, while the movies do not.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
My only question about his character, since there are about 7 movies coming out between this and Ant-man 3, is he making any cameos before becoming the main villain?

I don't believe they've officially announced anything at this time.

But, it might be downright Strange for him not to appear in Multiverse of Madness. Spider-Man: No Way Home is expected to deal with the multiverse concept, so he might show up there as well. Eternals and Thor: Love and Thunder are both apt to be semi-cosmic bits, so possibly there too. Who knows?

Besides, the series have enough time on-screen to do that, while the movies do not.

The comics genre is originally built on a series of short issues, so it is perhaps not surprising.
 

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