Lone Wolf sends Cease & Desist letters to anyone using the term 'Army Builder'

[lonewolfdevel]

Stopping a company from using "Army Builder" to refer to their product is one thing, trying to stop regular people from using a trademarked term to refer to another product is another.

We never attempted to do that. What we did was inform Privateer that the user community needed to be educated on the existence of the trademark and its proper use. Nobody can make somebody stop saying whatever they want. That would be a violation of free speech. However, it was well within our rights, and important if we want to avoid genericization of our trademark, to educate the community about the trademark. That's what we asked for - nothing more.

 

[lonewolfdevel]

I find it interesting that LW decided to wait almost exactly 5 years to "enforce" their trademark. They obviously waited because they knew that if they tried anytime before the mandatory 5 year waiting period was up they would have many complaints and contests to the trademark.

Smells fishy to me, and evil.

Actually, we've done this for many years now. There have been multiple fans over the years who have created their own tools and named them along the lines of "Jim's Army Builder". In each instance, we have contacted them and required them to change the name to something else.

This is simply the first time that the process has become a public one.

 

[lonewolfdevel]

I think Lone wolf did nothing wrong. They where in the right for what they did.
PP started the fire, then shut down talk about it on there sight.
Why did they do that?
Why did they even print what was sent?
Was it just to start trouble?
I would like for both parties to come here and tell there side of the story.
We wouldn't want another Salem witchhunt to happen do we?

Well, I'm here to answer questions as best I can for our side of the matter. I'm not going to theorize publicly about Privateer's actions, but you've posed some questions that I've also asked myself.

Thanks for keeping an open mind in this and seeking to get the facts.

 

[DaveMage]

The demand was...

Instead of demanding, woudn't a request have been a better first step? (Or did you try that already?)

 

[pawsplay]

Somebody mentioned Coca Cola. Well, those were two works, Coca for the Coca Leaf (the original Coke had some cocaine), and Cola, a variant (but legit) spelling of the Kola nut. So, two real words. Combined they were enough of a Trademark. Maybe its hard to see it now with the power the Coke brand has done over the years.

Interesting example. Coke tried to stop people from using Cola in the names of their drinks and was shot down.

 

[Jared Rascher]

I have a hard time believing that the only way to enforce the trademark was to take this drastic of a move. Considering most of these references were made by people posting on a forum, and not Privateer Press themselves using the term, it seems very demanding to try and force another company to protect your trademark for you.

I'm honestly thinking that someone from Lone Wolf just posting a new thread that says "hey, remember the term Army Builder is ours, so remember that its not a generic term or something you can use to name your own program for army lists," possibly with a nice request to Privateer Press to sticky the thread, or maybe just remembering to jump on once in a while to post a new thread when the last one gets archived.

I have to say that the way this was demanded of another company makes me very leery of further use of Lone Wolf's products, and I quite liked Hero Lab for making up Pathfinder characters.

 

[jaerdaph]

WOW THIS RELLY IS WORST THAN TEH 9/11s!

HOW COULD U DO THIS LONE WHITE WOLFS? HOW COULD U?!?

 

[lonewolfdevel]

If you read the linked documents, it was a demand that they censor the conversation on their forums - accompanied by a 72 hour deadline pending legal action. There's no "what was likely" about it - the documents are plainly readable.

Morrus, it sounds like you managed to conflate the two separate issues as well here. There was a demand to edit/remove posts referring to "Jim's Army Builder" and the like. There was also a demand to inform us how Privateer wanted to handle the education of its community about the trademark issue. That's it.

Including a legal threat and deadline at the outset

There was no direct legal threat in the message. The next step was that we'd have to get the attorneys involved. That's standard and I'm sure Privateer is quite familiar with the process. Apparently, many in the user community don't understand this and have lept to an interpretation that is pretty extreme.

Had we wanted there to be a legal threat, we would have had the attorneys draft a formal C&D letter. We didn't want to do that with Privateer. However, we did do it with a couple of sites that were using our trademark within the names of their tools (e.g. "Jim's Army Builder").

2) Attempting to regulate conversation about such products by the general public, as opposed to PP's own use of trademarked terms; and putting the onus on PP to defend LW's trademark to the general public.

We never did that. We sought education - not regulation. In addition, there was no requirement that Privateer do anything regarding the education. We gave them that option to afford them complete control - if they so chose - but were prepared to handle it entirely ourselves.

Please re-read the message again. If you have a specific citation you want to discuss, I'll be happy to do it.

I've received similar legal threats in the past. Folks claiming that *I* am libelling them because someone used a comminication medium I provided to say something. This is akin to claiming a telephone company is liable for what is said on the communication medium they provide.

You're absolutely correct with this. And it is quite possible that your reaction to the message we sent Privateer is partially colored by sensitivity to being accused of things improperly. Please re-read the message we sent with this in mind and I'll be happy to answer questions you still have.

 

[Umbran]

There was no direct legal threat in the message.

"Assuming that the improper references to tools using the name "Army Builder" are rectified and you confirm to us within 72 hours that you have done so, we will assume that infringement was unintentional and consider that matter closed. In the event that we have not heard back from you within the prescribed timeframe, we will have no choice but to refer this matter to our attorneys for further legal action."

With respect, sir, that sure looks like a direct threat of legal action if they didn't comply. I suspect pretty much everyone here will read it that way. Knowing the folks here, I don't think you will be able to convince them otherwise.

You may not be terribly familiar with our community, and I offer you a bit of advice - in the face of that quote, I think continued plain denials will not serve your interests well.

 

[jaerdaph]

!

PPL PLS! JIM'S ARMY BUILDER™! is for teh lone white wolfs SAD MOOD VAMPIRES game only and nothing else!!!