Lone Wolf sends Cease & Desist letters to anyone using the term 'Army Builder'

[Xyxox]

None of which is relevant to naming your product for what it does, then trademarking so other people cannot describe similar products in the same succinct fashion. As far as I know, "army list calculator" is the only synonym that has any traction as a useful alternative. What happens when someone trademarks Army List Calculator? Then where are we?

I'm going to still refer to my spreadsheets, which evolved from spreadsheets on spreadsheet software no longer available and began in the eighties, as "Army Builder Spreadsheets".

Know what? There's not thing one Lone Wolf can do about it. There's not thing one they cna do about my post, either. I don't sell my army builder spreadsheets, so I cna call my army builder spreadsheets what I've called them for decades now.

And yes, the very first Army Builder Spreadsheet I ever created was in Multiplan on a PC and was for building armies for use with the first edition of Battlesystem. It later evolved to Visicalc and Lotus 123, and expanded to second edition Battlesystem.

And if I really dig in some boxes I have in my basement, I wouldn't be surprised if I could dig up a 5 1/4" diskette with files named "Amry Builder".

 

[Garthanos]

I'm going to still refer to my spreadsheets, which evolved from spreadsheets on spreadsheet software no longer available and began in the eighties, as "Army Builder Spreadsheets".

Know what? There's not thing one Lone Wolf can do about it. There's not thing one they cna do about my post, either. I don't sell my army builder spreadsheets, so I cna call my army builder spreadsheets what I've called them for decades now.

And yes, the very first Army Builder Spreadsheet I ever created was in Multiplan on a PC and was for building armies for use with the first edition of Battlesystem. It later evolved to Visicalc and Lotus 123, and expanded to second edition Battlesystem.

And if I really dig in some boxes I have in my basement, I wouldn't be surprised if I could dig up a 5 1/4" diskette with files named "Amry Builder".

Please can we call the company something other than Lone Wolf (LWD?)... Joe Dever these people are not nor are they Mongoose Publishing... it makes me anti-empathetic towards them more-so than I might otherwise be especially since one of them has been fairly forthright about posting here.

Speaking of which this got me looking up what was happening with the real Lone Wolf Game company.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpg/series.php?qsSeries=24#

 

[Lanefan]

A question arises...

Say for some unknown reason I decide to trademark the name "John R. Troy Donkey Bong", with full and free permission from a (in this case hypothetical) John R. Troy I happen to know.

Do all the other John R. Troys in the world have to give me their permission as well? And what if one of them doesn't?

Worse yet, what if it's my own name I'm using? Can someone else with the same name deny me the right to use it as I wish just because they disapprove of such use?

Lanefan

 

[Xyxox]

Please can we call the company something other than Lone Wolf (LWD?)... Joe Dever these people are not nor are they Mongoose Publishing... it makes me anti-empathetic towards them more-so than I might otherwise be especially since one of them has been fairly forthright about posting here.

Speaking of which this got me looking up what was happening with the real Lone Wolf Game company.
Mongoose Publishing : For All Your Gaming Needs ...

That's one of two wild cards I see in this whole episode.

1) What will Mongoose do regarding their Lone Wolf IP since LWD brought this all to the forefront?

2) What will Privateer Press, GW, etc. do about the dataset files for LWD's Army Builder? Are there licensing agreements in place for those already? If so, why does LWD depend upon voilunteers to maintain those datasets?

 

[Dire Bare]

None of which is relevant to naming your product for what it does, then trademarking so other people cannot describe similar products in the same succinct fashion. As far as I know, "army list calculator" is the only synonym that has any traction as a useful alternative. What happens when someone trademarks Army List Calculator? Then where are we?

Just because YOU and a handful of others here think "Army Builder" is a stupid name for this product and somehow "douchey" to trademark it . . . doesn't make it so.

John has proved multiple times in this thread that he knows what he is talking about . . . it's getting sad to hear the repeated cries of foulplay over the naming of the software and the trademarking of that name.

LoneWolfDevel made the mistake of sending a letter he should have let his attorney send and used some incorrect terminology. He FUBARed the situation and created a mini-internet firestorm when it could have been handled much more elegantly . . . . but he and his company hasn't really done anything morally or legally wrong.

 

[Dire Bare]

That's one of two wild cards I see in this whole episode.

1) What will Mongoose do regarding their Lone Wolf IP since LWD brought this all to the forefront?

2) What will Privateer Press, GW, etc. do about the dataset files for LWD's Army Builder? Are there licensing agreements in place for those already? If so, why does LWD depend upon voilunteers to maintain those datasets?

Not really.

Lone Wolf Development, a software gaming company, has chosen a fine name that doesn't step on any trademarks. It is obviously very similar to the Lone Wolf series of game books, but as the two are in different categories with no overlap so there is no problem. Somehow claiming that LWD is again, being underhanded, this time in choosing their company name, is more overreaching by those who wish to remain offended.

The linking to data files for a variety of game systems and their respective copyrights and trademarks could be troubling for LWD. They've been doing it for years, as have many of their competitors. But that, of course, doesn't make it right or safe. I doubt that Privateer or any of the other companies really object to the practice, however, as they've been aware of it for years and have taken no steps to stop it. It actually adds value to their games, so why bother hassling over it?

 

[Dire Bare]

I suppose I'll also add in response to posts a few pages back asking, "Lone Wolf Development who? I've never heard of these guys!"

For those who feel that way . . . do you play miniature wargames? LIke Warhammer or Privateer's games like Warmachine and Hordes? I've been playing since the 90s, and LWDs Army Builder has been a favorite piece of software for almost everyone I've met in the hobby. Many find it essential. They don't have many competitors, and no one's managed to oust them from their #1 spot. All my local gamestores have had copies on CD available for sale for as long as I can remember. That's all anecdotal, of course, but if you're a wargamer then you are probably familiar with Army Builder.

The name of the software is in danger of becoming generic for the same reason Coke has become a generic word for softdrink in some parts of the country. Because it's the most popular!

Also, I've seen plenty of discussion on these boards regarding LWDs Hero Lab RPG software. I've personally only played with the demo, but it seems to be favorably received here on ENWorld.

I'm not sure how popular their Card Vault software for CCGs is, but I use it and think it's pretty slick.

 

[Relique du Madde]

so why bother hassling over it?

Let see... does this scenario work for you?

LWD > Stop using the phrase "Army Builder" on your site.
IP Holder > You do realize that you are using my IP (without a license?) for Army Builder.
LWD > I don't care, stop saying Army Builder!
IP Holder > No.. YOU stop using my IP.
LWD > No.. YOU stop saying Army Builder!
IP HOlder > /facepalm

 

[S'mon]

The same basic rules apply to trademarks. I believe the term is "contributory trademark infringement". If a site owner is contacted about a trademark infringement (e.g. Matthew Freeman's Army Builder) on their site, they may elect to remove the infringing reference (i.e. a link to your site containing the name "Matthew Freeman's Army Builder"). If the site owner chooses not to do so, then it's possible for them to be held accountable for "contributory trademark infringement". The choice always resides with the site owner, but most site owners take content down immediately when infringement is demonstrated, since they don't want to risk liability.

To quote 300, "THIS IS MADNESS!"

You or your lawyer are taking a judge's comment re the offering of goods on Ebay and applying it to Bulletin Board discussion. If there are fake products on sale on Ebay, a clear-cut case of infringement by the offerors, it's not a big stretch to say that Ebay has a responsibility to remove those ads upon notice, or become contributorily liable. Discussing army builder software on a board cannot be TM infringement to begin with, so no hoster liability can arise.

Thanks for this though, I'm starting to see how this mess has arisen.

 

[Oldtimer]

To quote 300, "THIS IS MADNESS!"

Madness...?
THIS IS INTERNET!

Sorry, I just had to...