Long-Term Injury Fun?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm really liking some of the ideas for injury 'candy' that people are coming up with to appease that class of gamer that feels its play style is threatened by long term injury. I like your idea and I like the idea that the party gets bonus XP whenever its members enter the encounter carrying long term injuries.

I like it that you like it, and I like especially your term "injury candy".

Oh, and I like the idea of the player saying "dang, I need that extra surge, can't go into the negatives now. Okay, Mr. DM, I take an injury, but I want my hit points back. Err, I mean: "The Orcs sword crushes down on Bob, and he tries to evade in the last moment - unfortunately, his right leg isn't fast enough, resulting in a nasty looking cut. The wound bleeds, but Bob just grins angrily and says Is that all you good, greenskin?! My grandmother could hit better, and she was blind and demented! I take a -2 movement penalty due to the injury."

Basically, I'm looking for a light "attrition" system for prolonged dungeoneering. So, if a party goes into a dungeon for a week, there's a "survival" element to play. Nothing that destroys a character or necessarily sends them off into a death spiral.

If you want to keep it simple: Healing Surges recover at a rate of one point per day. (Healing Surges are your new hit points to resource-manage ).

 

[scholz]

I definitely like long term injury as a player choice.
I think a mechanic that allows PCs to opt for a long term injury instead of going to negative hitpoints, or dying, is a good bet.

Immediate Action: Sacrifice Move.
Character takes 1/2 the damage of some attack, but suffers a long term injury of some kind appropriate to the attack. This can be done 'after the damage' is calculated, even if the total would send the PC to negative hit points or death. The character suffers a -2 to any action, skill or save that uses the part injured.

After one week the injury is healed.

 

[LostSoul]

I'm not sure I'm feeling the Dazed/Enervated/Slowed. I think that may be too punitive. But I know nothing until we get a look at the PHB/DMG and find out what the designers feel a Persistent Condition should look like.

Yeah, either am I.

One thing to note with what I came up with is the currency that's created. You're trading off an action point for some kind of possible penalty. Is the action point worth it? It would need to be balanced so sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no.

Whatever the bonus/penalty you get, you'd have to keep that in mind.

I'm also not too happy with the healing part. This also ties into the penalty you get. The question is: do we want to encourage another type of adventure, one that's more social or intrigue? Or do we want to stick with the dungeon/combat adventure type?

If it's a combat adventure, we don't want any penalty from a long-term injury to limit player choice in combat. That is a big problem with the conditions I listed, but I couldn't think of anything else.

If we want a different type of adventure, then the penalty shouldn't limit choices there either. The penalties could act as a motivator to get some "downtime" - and possibly add bonuses to certain skills, like Intimidate as mentioned above. But saying, "DM, give them a skill challenge quest" is weak, only the bare minimum of support for what we want.

It's a start, though.

 

[JohnSnow]

Here's something:

Design goals:

• Increase meaningful gamist choices. Reward/risk.
• Keep it simple to keep track of.
• Long-Term Injuries lead to more adventure, not less.

....

This needs work, but that's what I'm thinking.

I like it. Let me take a crack at a system. I like your box/circle/check thing, so I'm gonna leave it alone - mostly. My suggestion:

Draw a little box on your character sheet. Write the words "Long-Term Injury" beside it. Draw a little skull beside it if you're into that sort of thing. In addition, leave a descriptor line next to it.

At any time, if you think you've got the guts, draw a circle around the box. This means you're risking a long-term injury. Gain an action point.

If you're dropped to 0 hit points or less, and the circle is around the box, check that box. It can't be checked twice. Describe the injury.

The injury can be minor, major, or severe.

• Minor Injury: e.g. -2 to all Str-related checks, -1 square of movement.
• Major Injury: e.g. -4 to all strength-related checks, -2 squares of movement, or 2 minor injuries.
• Severe Injury: e.g. - 8 to all strength-related checks, -3 squares of movement, or 2 major injuries.

You may substitute injuries in one level for injuries of the next. For example, a severely injured character could choose to have 1 severe injury, 2 major injuries, or 1 major injury and 2 minor ones.

Example: A fighter is severely injured. He elects to describe his injury as broken ribs from a blow he received during a fight. He determines this will be reflected by a Major Injury to his Constitution and and minor injuries to Dexterity and Movement.

A minor injury persists for at least 1 week. A major injury persists for at least 2 weeks before downgrading to minor, and a severe injury persists for at least 4 weeks before downgrading to severe. A character who adventures while suffering from a persistent injury should receive bonus XP based on the type of injury he has. It is suggested that characters receive an experience point bonus to awarded xp as follows:

Minor Injury: +2.5%
Major Injury: +5%
Severe Injury: +10%

Characters who heal from their injuries during downtime should get roleplaying kudos, but receive no XP awards.

A player who so chooses may elect to have a persistent injury and constantly receive this bonus. This could represent the old soldier with a bad knee, for example.

Something like that. Obviously, it needs balancing and playtesting. But I figured if +10% was a good bonus for high ability scores in the old days, it was a good high-end for this sort of thing.

 

[hcm]

I really like SteveC's and LostSoul's suggestions.

A long the same line of thinking, you can make injuries something that can be used like a "negative" per day or even encounter power, but doing so earns you something -- say an action point -- to be used once you get well. This can also be combined with choosing your injuries like SteveC suggested and quest-curing like LostSoul suggested. It would create a sort of come-back feeling: you get beaten but it makes you stronger in the end.

I don't know what a negative power would be though.

 

[AllisterH]

Not to be a downer on the topic but pretty much all of these suggestions HEAVILY favour non-melee classes.

I'm playing a spellcaster and -4 to STR and -4 to my move means diddly to me.

Flaws have always been the surest route to powergaming.

 

[JohnSnow]

Not to be a downer on the topic but pretty much all of these suggestions HEAVILY favour non-melee classes.

I'm playing a spellcaster and -4 to STR and -4 to my move means diddly to me.

Flaws have always been the surest route to powergaming.

Well...true.

On the other hand, strength was an example, and -4 to several other attributes could be pretty harmful to a spellcaster.

Like I said, it was a first attempt. You'd probably have to limit what attributes each class could take the penalty in. Or you could just go old-school and make the PC roll on a table to determine randomly which attribute is affected. After all, nobody can control where an injury will land.

Something like:

01-15 : Strength
16-30 : Dexterity
31-45 : Constitution
46-60 : Intelligence
61-75 : Wisdom
76-90 : Charisma
90-00 : Movement

Or is that too evil?

 

[enigma5915]

I do like the idea of long term injuries as a DM and a player. I am using a "wound system" of my own right now. My reasoning is that this game is more that a cheap video game. Not that I dislike video games, but they are simple and have limited options. My friends and I play and have played D&D because of its unlimited nature. Since I was eight years old playing this game I have learned that there are repercussions for bad decisions, life is not always fair, not every situation is pre made just for you to encounter it, it pays to be quick on your feat, and critical thinking can save your arss. Now this was my perspective back in the early 80's as a child. I did not cry when the game got tough, I got creative and determined to do better. As for long term injuries, they keep the game grounded. Heck if we are going to disregard injuries we might as well disregard gravity and all other physics as well, since its just a game and because its magical. My point is that if injuries are unfun, then enjoy the video game and the world of no consequences. But if you like some sense of a story and not just a hack fest, then they might work for you.

Those are my thoughts.

 

[smathis]

If you want to keep it simple: Healing Surges recover at a rate of one point per day. (Healing Surges are your new hit points to resource-manage ).

That's an interesting way to think about it. Thanks!

 

[Pale Jackal]

I enjoyed the previous Minor/Medium/Major wound, but:

I definitely like long term injury as a player choice.
I think a mechanic that allows PCs to opt for a long term injury instead of going to negative hitpoints, or dying, is a good bet.

Immediate Action: Sacrifice Move.
Character takes 1/2 the damage of some attack, but suffers a long term injury of some kind appropriate to the attack. This can be done 'after the damage' is calculated, even if the total would send the PC to negative hit points or death. The character suffers a -2 to any action, skill or save that uses the part injured.

After one week the injury is healed.

This strikes me as really nice, primarily because it's simple.

I'd personally go one step further and say: "After damage is calculated, you may take half damage, but at the cost of -2 to saves/to-hit/skills. This heals after one week."

I'm thinking this may be too good, or too bad, but I guess it's situational. If you feel you're going to win the fight even if you get KO'd, then you don't do it, but you're in a tough fight against the BBEG? Take half damage.

I suppose if this is abused (and I think it'd only be abused versus "bosses"), you can just make the bosses tougher. And it also depends, ultimately, on how many hits a typical 4E character can take.

If you could only take 2 hits (just for example)... taking a -2 then -4 penalty isn't so bad for doubling your staying power.

I think the penalty might have to be increased to -4, but we'll see.

Another possibilty is also applying the penalty to AC, which makes sense. A serious wound is going to make you less capable of defending yourself.

Ultimately, I like this idea, though depending on the durability of characters when facing, say, solo monsters (who should have the highest damage per hit?) the penalty might need some modifying.

Ah! The penalty could be tied to how much damage is reduced.

-1 for every 5 points negated, perhaps?