D&D 5E Longbow Damage

[Jeff Carlsen]

Anybody who's interested in medival warfare and weaponry (and some other esoteric topics) should take a look at Lindybeige on YouTube. Any of his videos that start with "A point about..." are usually very interesting tidbits about weaponry and the like.

For this particular discussion, here are his videos on bows:

A Point About Bows
Four More Points About Bows
Some Points About Longbows
Some Points About Arrows

Thank you for these. Perhaps we should start a thread for historical reference links.

 

[BartHumphries]

A Point About Bows

He's right. All the energy comes from the person -- bows are essentially just springs. He's also right, that if you give him a more powerful bow, the arrow won't go any farther/faster/harder because he can't pull any harder, his strength is his strength.

He's also right in that if you do have a bigger bow, like a warbow with a 120-pound pull, and give it to a bigger stronger guy, it will definitely go farther/faster/harder.

That's what we're looking for and which 5th edition seems to have dropped the ball on. There are regular bows on the market for people with 11, 12, 13 Strength, but what about the people with 17,18, maybe even 20 Str? Those hulking behomoths need a bigger bow so that they can better take advantage of their higher Str.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I haven't been able to find a definitive reference in 1st Ed - the description in the Str table says this applies to melee only, but in the DMG there are also some references to it applying to thrown weapons. I haven't been able to find anything about bows.

I very clearly remember there being something in 1e about bows 'made for strength,' and one of my characters having one (he was also the first character I tried TWFing with, and once he started doing that, the whole archery thing kinda fell by the wayside). (But, I also thought I was very vividly remembering the definition of 'giant class' from the ranger's class description, when I was actually remembering the one from the Hammer of Thunderbolts.)

4e and 5e have both dropped the ball on heavier-pull bows, depending entirely on throw weapons to give high-STR characters range capability. It would be prettymuch effortless to add to either. Just very-unintuitively add a 'Composite Bow' or 'Heavy Bow' to the equipment list - with the thrown property. Or, specifically in 5e, even less intuitively, the Finesse property. No, really.

 

[hejtmane]

For balance sake, I believe Str should be the only stat that adds to damage AND to-hit. Dex is already overloaded with goodies that can easily circumvent / overpower str-based characters. Again, early editions got this right. ..scratches head. I'm starting to think I should be looking at retro-clones more. But the problem of finding other players.../sigh

Strength does not add to accuracy in reality either if we wanted to go that route all melee and ranged attacks with weapons should use Dex for tohit and str for damage.

I mean if you wanted to really balance it that would be the way

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Strength does not add to accuracy in reality either if we wanted to go that route all melee and ranged attacks with weapons should use Dex for tohit and str for damage.

Hitting isn't just hitting - it's your chance to hit and cause damage. A stronger person has a greater chance of injuring someone wearing heavy armor.

Dex to hit and Strength to damage would only make sense if we were also using armor as DR.

 

[BookBarbarian]

As something of an amateur archer myself I've thought about this.

I think I'll make an item property called Strongbow (or hopefully a better name when i give it some more thought) that lets a the user add STR bonus to damage rolls made with the bow (in addition to DEX bonus).

I'd probably make a common or uncommon magic bow with that property and add it to a few of the existing magic bows. I could see it being particularly useful to those characters that don't dump STR or DEX. Like Barbarians, STR based Rangers, some Valor Bards, or if someone wanted a Greatsword/Longbow fighter etc...

 

[hejtmane]

Hitting isn't just hitting - it's your chance to hit and cause damage. A stronger person has a greater chance of injuring someone wearing heavy armor.

Dex to hit and Strength to damage would only make sense if we were also using armor as DR.

Yes str does more damage does not make you more accurate

Then again knowing where to hit matters in real life as while

End of the day they decided ranged weapons goes by dex and melee str unless finesse property or class feature

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Hmm. Bit of a necro thread, but may as well join in:

Hitting isn't just hitting - it's your chance to hit and cause damage. A stronger person has a greater chance of injuring someone wearing heavy armor.

Dex to hit and Strength to damage would only make sense if we were also using armor as DR.

Yep. Strength actually does have a bearing on accuracy as well for bows: The more force you put into the arrow, the faster and flatter the trajectory. This is important for any situation where you aren't shooting at motionless targets on a still day, but is vital given the unpredictable movements in combat.
Dex may increase accuracy more, allowing you to hit a smaller target, but as you say, Strength actually increases the size of your viable targets by punching through heavier armour.

In the end, I did the same thing that Tony Vargas suggested, and effectively gave bows the finesse property.

 

[dmnqwk]

Just make a feat.

Composite Bowman
Req Str 13+
You may add your Str to damage rolls when using a shortbow or longbow.
Any ranged weapon attack within 30' of the target is made with advantage.

The advantage signifies that the strength of the bow user can penetrate the armour more efficiently.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Back in 1e we allowed STR damage, but only bows that had a min STR requirement. I.e., a bow that required a STR 16 to use gave your STR bonus to damage, but only up to STR 16. An 18 STR PC using that bow would still only get the +1 damage from strength. And 18/00 bow required 18/00 or higher STR, but gave a +6 damage due to that strength.