Lookin' for Advice

[I'm A Banana]

Hey, everybody! I've started postin' stuff again.

Check out this class:

The Black Magician

How does it stand up to the bitter scrutiny here? Does the Sorc/Wiz balance of spells work? Is Doublecast too potent? Is Focus a good exchange for a Familiar?

ANSWER ME!!!!

Heh. Seriously, does this look like something you could stick into your campaign without it being too weak or too powerful?

 

[twjensen]

3

5th level casters of Magic Missile get 3 missiles, not 2, as stated in the class features section.

 

[Crothian]

Intersting Core class. The combining of wizard and sorcerer is a very intersting idea. I had an NPC that was a Wizard/Sorcerer, so I know the value of that combo. You have many low level spells, especially with a high Int since you get bonus spells for both. You just won't be casting the higher level spells. Having them keep the total spellcasting level is a good touch. One note, your example would cast 3 magic missiles, not two.

"Focus: Black magicians can enhance their spellcasting powers by focusing their dark energies as a standard action. For one round after focusing, the black magician doubles their Intelligence score. After one round, it reverts to normal. This can be used to enhance DC's for black magic spells, to gain a bonus on a skill check or ability check, or any other conceivable purpose."

Is this doubling of Int score, or Int bonus. I'm hoping it is the bonus as the score is way too powerful. An 18 Int would go from +4 to +8 with the bonus doubled. That is powerful, but okay. But doubling the score for 18 to 36, that is +4 to +13. That is a huge bonus and way to much.

Double cast is way to powerful. Basically, you are allowing free quicken spells when ever he wants. THe class is already geared for a greater number of spells, so it's doubtful they will run out fast. I'd either limit this to a few times a day or allow the quickened feat at only +3.

Overall, it's a good class.

 

[I'm A Banana]

>_<

D'oh! Dumb oversight on my part.

Right now, Focus doubles the Int score, but that's a good point...

What if it granted a +Black Magician bonus to Int, then?

I don't especially like the concept of doubling modifiers, but this would both make it scale easier, and give the impression that higher-level black mages can harnass more arcane energies to make them work magic.

As for the doublecast...the idea is to give them something analagous to the fighter's Attacks Per Round...it's not exactly the same as a Quickened spell, since the doublecaster can't move in the same round (definately a risky proposition for a mage without a wall of defenders...)

But I do see your point, especially when it's paired with everything else.

What if the two spells cast both took up a slot that was two levels higher than normal?

This would kind of disperse the painful +4 level of a Quickened spell, but keep some semblance of it, and retain the inability to move. Quicken would still be useful, in it's own right.

Also, keep in mind that these two abilities are supposed to kind of make it equal with a Wizard. The BM gets shafted in skills, gypped in weapons, and even reamed over on spells (wizards get a lot more of a lot more versatility...something with spell resistance can undo a Black Mage pretty decently. )

Just tossin' ideas. Do the two adjustments weaken the powers enough to be more balanced, or are they still too powerful. I'm looking for ways to especially make Doublecast a viable "two-spells-in-one-round" method.

 

[Crothian]

Can you double cast in the same round you quicken? If so add in a Haste and you can get off 4 spells in a single round.

What bonus would Focus Grant? That's the big question. I mean I just showed how you could cast 4 spells in a round, combine that with focus and things get deadly.

Your SR comment doesn't seem to make sense. If the Black Magician casts spells as his combined caster level, then shouldn't that be applied to SR and not the individual classes?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, since Quickening makes it a free action, and free actions take up no time, then, yeah, you could fire off a Quickened spell and a Doublecast. And Haste would allow you to Doublecast still, too...add onto that a Quickened spell, and you've got four spells in that round....

Which is a lot, but I don't think is really that extreme. I mean, you are still drained after that, right? And it gives the mage a chance to overcome high SR creatures by odds alone...because if they can't hurt something with SR, a black mage is next-to-useless. It gives them big damage potential (five fireballs...yipe), but they still have to be able to use the spells (you can't cast five fireballs until you can kill something by just waving your hand around, anyway)....so I think it would just basically mean that they launch off spells a bit quicker, pile all their eggs in one basket. And if that basket happens to be anti-magiked at the time...heh.

The SR comment comes in when the black mage would fight a monster with high SR. Generally, these creatures are quite powerful already, and the high SR just makes them tougher to hit with any kind of spells. Simply by giving the mage more chances at once, they've got a bit of a better chance of overcoming some of that. It's kinda like re-rolling the check if you fail, by casting another spell. They'll have the same chance to overcome it as a wizard of similar level, but the wizard has a few more rescourses (grease the walkway, escape by teleporting, etc.)

But that's just a minor thing, really. Black mages are *supposed* to be hindered by SR.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, about the above, of course. Especially doublecast. I *really* want to make that a viable option.

As for Focus...I want it to be similar in power to a feat of some sort...kinda a counterpart to the extra weapon prof. of the sorcerer or the bonus scribe scroll feat of the wizard.

In that light, even + black magician level is a bit potent, though. Perhaps just a flat +2 bonus? (never that great, but always worth doin', sorta level)

I think that actually makes the best sense. Just a flat +2. Makes it about as useful as Scribe Scroll. ^_^

Doublecast I want to balance, definately though. I'm not sure the number of spells in one round is that huge of a factor, but I'd be perfectly happy if I were wrong in that. As long as I can get something similar out there...something that says "two-spells-at-once" without being overpowered.

 

[Crothian]

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly. The class adds together Black Wizard and Black Sorcerer levels for Class level in regard to casting spells.

However, one does not add together when overcoming SR?

The doublecast, I'd just make a full round action and make each spell two levels higher.

Focus of +2 is more powerful then any feat. Spell Focus feat is +2 but only applies to one school. You're apply it to all. So, +2 for focus is okay, but still very strong.