Looking back on 3.x-era d20 products: which kinds were most useful?

[Nellisir]

Thoughts on Mongoose Publishing?

The editing, particularly the mechanics editing, is often horrible - but they throw so many ideas at the wall, invariably some stick. I've got most of the Quintessential 2 books on pdf, and pick up other products when I can find them in bargain bins. Great for picking through for ideas. I'm also very fond of the Monster Encylopedias - I think they've got a great diversity of creatures.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

Personally, I tend to avoid adventures and fluff. I typically write my own. For me, crunch is what I'm interested in, but I quickly recognize that much of it goes overboard--imbalanced, or the same power with a new name, etc. So, I avoid most 3rd party material out of hand and haven't purchased most Wizards supplements. I've never used psionics in 3e, for example, and I'm not looking to start.

How do Wizards splatbooks compare to 3rd party splatbooks? Most games I see welcome the Complete series, but they avoid anything 3rd party in their ruleset. In your opinion, is the Wizards material superior to 3rd party, or just better marketed? Is there a reason that nothing 3rd party OGL has become "standard" D&D like the Complete series?

 

[GlassJaw]

I would group the products I found most useful into three categories:

Modules - Dungeon mag, Freeport trilogy, Necromancer stuff, etc. Even if I don't run them all, I can never have enough good modules.

Monster books that are more than just monster books - Monsternomicon, Tome of Horrors, Advanced Bestiary. Anything that increases my options or gives me background/ecology/adventure seeds for the monsters.

Alternate rulesets - Grim Tales, Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, Iron Heroes, Conan, Spycraft 2.0, True20. I'm a tinkerer so I always like checking out new options.

 

[GlassJaw]

Thoughts on Mongoose Publishing?

Early stuff was pretty horrible. I would include most of the Quintessential series in that category. Editing finally started to improve with the 2nd printing (Atlantean edition) of the Conan ruleset.

 

[GlassJaw]

although crunch with added fluff

This is a good point. There are a lot of books that I really like that would fit into this category: Chaositech (one of the best d20 books hands down), Steam & Steel, etc.

Basically crunch with a purpose.

 

[delericho]

A look at the books I have bought vs the books that I have used makes for a fairly depressing experience. There are a huge number of books that I thought were really excellent, and which would have added greatly to the game... if they'd actually been used.

However, things like the Spell Compendium and the Complete Book of Eldritch Might are utterly worthless if not a single player selects a spell from either. The same goes for all those myriad prestige classes that no-one adopted, the hundreds of feats no-one took, and the plethora of magic items that were never used.

The only two types of books that really did pull their weight were bestiaries and adventures.

Even bestiaries very quickly reach a point of diminishing returns - between the original Monster Manual, the Tome of Horrors, and the Advanced Bestiary, we have covered 90% of my monster needs. Beyond that, only Monster Manual 4 has seen much use, and that was for the much-maligned sample advanced monsters.

Adventures, however, tend to be the best value purchases, provided I actually use them. Here, the problem is balancing purchases with use - I have purchased many more adventures than I have actually used. Yet another reason to lament the end of Dungeon magazine there - three adventures a month at that price point was absurdly good value.

The other product I would be very interested in seeing, although I doubt it will ever be done, is a deluxe setting corebook, of the sort of size and quality (and price-point) of Ptolus, but covering a whole continent rather than a single city. It would need to be a one-book deal, though - I'm not interested in getting on the supplement treadmill again. (Like I haven't said that before with every edition since 2nd...)

 

[Aus_Snow]

Gareth Hanrahan. He's sort of low on everyone's radar who isn't into B5, because that's been his vocation lately. He's also doing Mongoose Traveller (see the thread about Mongoose Traveller's new initiative system for some recent buzz on this).

My first encounter with his work was with Sorcery & Steam by FFG. I really though the mechanics in that book stunk it up pretty bad. But the campaign sections had some really cool ideas and flavor. I found out he was responsible for the campaign section.

He also did a few of the Quintessential books, but the stuff I know him for best is the material in the classic play series, especially Book of Dragons and Book of the Planes. I find his little idea seeds inspiring.

I've been meaning to check out 'Book of the Planes', one of these days.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'm always curious to know a little bit more of what lurks behind all these names.

 

[barsoomcore]

Some books I found massively useful over the years:

Relics & Rituals I & II
Monsternomicon
Grim Tales
Skull & Bones

All of those were very handy -- the latter two more because I ran or played in campaigns that used those rulesets. The former ones got a lot of use in my Barsoom campaign setting (Story Hours here (Part One) and here (Part Two)).

 

[SteveC]

I am shocked that Psion didn't mention this already, but the most useful supplement I purchased for D&D (and, correspondingly, for D20 Modern) was the Second World Sourcebook.

The book was a gold mine of information on creating campaigns with variable qualities and tones, and had suggestions for introducing rules from D20 Modern into D&D, and vice-versa.

The thing it, Steve Palmer Peterson really gets the D&D (and D20) rules. I think the biggest problems that I have had with some third party products (and some of the lower quality WotC ones as well) is that the creator didn't really understand the underlying principles behind the rules. Steve really got them. I'm just sorry he didn't come out with more products, as I also thought his Masters of Arms and the more recent Skill Focus: Talking were excellent.

I suggest that anyone who is looking to design a product for 3X take a look at his book. It is really that good.

--Steve

 

[Voadam]

3rd party stuff I have used a bunch that come to mind

Adventures: Goodman Games DCC, Demon God's Fane from Malhavoc, a free one from a defunct company, Freeport Trilogy, Harvest of Darkness from Kenzer,

Spells: Complete Book of Eldritch Might, Arcane Strife, Spells & Magic, Quintessential Wizard, Spells and Spellcraft, Into the Blue,

Feats: Traps and Treachery, Arcana Unearthed, Witch's Handbook, Complete Guide to Wererats,

Classes: Cityworks, Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Elements of Magic Lyceian Academy, Witch's Handbook, Deeds Not Words, Everquest RPG PH, Complete Guide to Wererats, Character Customization,

Prestige classes: Complete Book of Eldritch Might, Librum Equitis Compiled, The paladin book by Chainmail Bikini Games, Crimson Contracts,

Races: Mythic Races, Complete Minions/Oathbound/Wildwood, Arcana Unearthed, Aasimar & Tiefling, Book of Templates, Tome of Horrors Revised,

Settings: Oathbound, Wildwood, Ptolus, Freeport (as seen in the Trilogy), Diamond Throne, Raveloft CS, Twin Crowns Campaign Setting,

Rule variant inspirations: Iron Heroes, Arms & Armor 3.5, Everquest RPG PH, Arcana Unearthed, Ravenloft CS,

Monsters: Complete Minions, Slayer's Guide to Demons, Encyclopedia of Demons and Devils I & II, Book of Fiends, Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary, Denizens of Darkness, Creatures of Freeport, Monster Geographica Forest, Monsters of Norrath, Roll Initiative Monsters, Dice Freaks Hell stuff, Lost Tribes of the Scarred Lands, Book of Templates,

Gods: Lore of the Gods, Diamond Throne, Ptolus, Complete Minions, Wildwood, Encyclopedia of Demons and Devils I & II, Book of Fiends, Creatures of Freeport, Dice Freaks Hell stuff, The Atlas games cult book, Dragonlords of Melnibone,

Description stuff: Bits of Darkness Caverns, Bits of Wilderness Wildwood,

Counters: Fiery Dragon counters, Dragonscale games counters,

Ritual Magic Systems: Relics and Rituals, Heroes of High Favor Elves, Twin Crowns Campaign Setting, Witch's Handbook, St. John's College of Abjuration,