Looking for D&D-like alternatives to D&D 5e

[Micah Sweet]

(Oh! It also has giant robots, if you're into that sort of thing)

Wait. There are people who aren't into giant robots?

How do I sign?

 

[HephaistosFnord]

Well, you go here and get the player's handbook: DriveThruRPG

Then you go here and get the setting guide: DriveThruRPG

Both are pay-what-you-want, since the art is all AI-generated but the text is 100% human-crafted
(I used generated art to find the right 'feel' and spent a good amount of time on it, but I still wouldn't feel right calling the art "mine")

 

[HephaistosFnord]

Here's a few excerpts, if you're interested:

 

[Tigris]

Having tactical combat in terms of grid-based combat as a requirement honestly makes this pretty difficult for me to give recommendations, @Blue.

For more 4e/JRPG-inspired games, there is ICON by Masiff Press (aka Fantasy Lancer) and Beacon by Pirate Gonzalez Games. I would potentially recommend Fabula Ultima, but the grid-based combat requirement kills that one.

If you can navigate the poor layout of the book, there is also Strike! RPG: Tactical and Heedless Combat.

These are good recomendations, from my point Beacon is the strongest (most streamlined, best layout, and still having many build possibilities). It is also well made for shorter missions, with the example mission in the book only having 1 fight.

I think a modified 4e Essentials could be doable.

What I do:

• Reduce the number of options. (Figther, Thief, War Priest, Mage, with potential for Elementalist, Hunter/Scout, Berserker, Skald, Cavalier, Hexblade/Binder etc if the players really need more options)
• Remove the Feats ( too fiddly for what they bring at the table)
• Use a lot of minions (1 hp monsters) and the monsters from MM3, Monster Vault and Threat. Use moral rolls to finish the combats quickly once the tougher foes are done.

What you could do to remove the need for feats is to do the same as gamma world did: With attacks add your level to area/multi attack abilities, and 2 times your level to single target attacks.

In addition to this, just add your level (instead of half level) to hit, then you dont need to have magical items and feats (and ability increases) to make it scale correctly with enemy defense.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

As I mentioned, for me to pitch a different system instead of one of the new crop, it really needs to be superior. Can you tell me why these would beat the options listed?

I too would hihgly recommend Savage Worlds, probably Savage Worlds Pathfinder. You can get the pdf for $15 right now. It is what I am planning to run once our 5e campaign ends (though that may be a while). Considering your positive response to other posters' suggestions of systems not like D&D at all, I find your sceptism here a bit strange.

But it ticks all your boxes. Crunch at the level of 5e, tactical, grid-based combat, plays fast. Only problems I see are it's not really attrition based like most D&D inspired games are, and there's a meta currency your group may dislike. I actually dislike it a bit and am looking into a way of making the awarding of bennies (stupid name!) more based on game mechanics and less on GM fiat.

 

[GuardianLurker]

I too would hihgly recommend Savage Worlds, probably Savage Worlds Pathfinder. You can get the pdf for $15 right now. It is what I am planning to run once our 5e campaign ends (though that may be a while). Considering your positive response to other posters' suggestions of systems not like D&D at all, I find your sceptism here a bit strange.

But it ticks all your boxes. Crunch at the level of 5e, tactical, grid-based combat, plays fast. Only problems I see are it's not really attrition based like most D&D inspired games are, and there's a meta currency your group may dislike. I actually dislike it a bit and am looking into a way of making the awarding of bennies (stupid name!) more based on game mechanics and less on GM fiat.

If you're talking inspiration/hero points, I understand. I haven't been able to get my players involved in the ebb-and-flow of this, and it makes it really fail.

What I've done is transform it to a permanent "bennie" - aka "soul coin". The lowest level is just the Hero Point made permanent. And in addition to "just getting one" I also include them as rewards found with treasure. I also have "higher" levels that produce greater effects (like "your roll is a 20 - not a natural 20 - just a 20", "reroll twice and take the better", etc.)
They seem fine with that, but it definitely allows them to punch above their weight.

 

[innerdude]

Folks, just a quick calibration.

DM

1. Neo-Trad DMing style.
2. 2.5-3 hours weeknight sessions. Just want to play.
3. Doesn't want 5e any more. Sees lots of cracks, including some deep ones like challenging high level parties without it being super swingy and balance between classes with 1-3 encounters per day.
4. The do not want OSR.
5. Enjoy tactical grid combat and it's a requirement. But can't be slow and take up most of a 2.5-3 hour session.
6. Mostly looking at MCDM, DC20, Daggerheart, Tales of the Valiant, and if I'm to pitch another game will need supporting points (from this list) why it really fits.

Various Players

1. Need a straightforward game. That's does not mean rules light, but just one where a new player who reads the rules once can understand their options.
2. Character creation/advancement: No trap options/feat taxes. No need to pre-build for a bunch of levels. Limited places to shoot yourself in the foot. Non-optimized characters need to be viable.

I see lots of great recommendations for games, but I'm trying to find something that threads some specific requirements that vary between the group. If you could limit suggestions to ones that will fulfill these that will help. And if suggesting existing systems, please give me ammunition about why those games would be a better fit than the ones the DM is currently looking at.

Thanks!

Based on these requirements, I think the top 3 or 4 most likely candidates have already been brought up.

If it were me, I'd rank possibilities in this order:

1. Savage Worlds --- I love Savage Worlds to death. From the player perspective, it fits your requirements nearly perfectly. From the GM side, though, wanting to avoid "swinginess" would definitely be an issue. But it will absolutely get you into faster combats, with tactical grid as a core assumption, with easy-to-follow character progression with interesting character choices, and it's super, super compatible with "neo-trad" sensibilities. Non-optimized characters are still going to be competent and capable of impacting any "pillar" of play (combat, exploration, social).
2. Daggerheart -- I've read but haven't played the playtest docs. This will drift farther from "trad", possibly even beyond "neo-trad" into a "neo-trad / narrativist" hybrid, but play reports have been promising. My read through of the system certainly offers interesting character builds and fun gear options, and seems to meet your overall group criteria. If your group is at all interested in Critical Role, this system will be eminently featured for years to come, so would also give them something to latch on to away from the table if they're into RPG play streams.
3. Draw Steel (i.e., MCDM) -- Have not read myself, but reports of its tactical combat experience are near-universally positive, with interesting character builds. The "no attack rolls" thing is apparently a big positive.
4. Fantasy AGE -- Not familiar with this too much, but seems to meet general requirements of having tactical combat, straightforward PC build progression, is well-supported by the publisher.

Honestly, for $10, your GM should at least pick up a PDF copy of the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition rules and see if it speaks to him at all. It really does slide right into 90%+ of what your group is looking for.

 

[dbm]

Did your group make any decisions @Blue?

 

[Reynard]

I too would hihgly recommend Savage Worlds, probably Savage Worlds Pathfinder. You can get the pdf for $15 right now. It is what I am planning to run once our 5e campaign ends (though that may be a while). Considering your positive response to other posters' suggestions of systems not like D&D at all, I find your sceptism here a bit strange.

But it ticks all your boxes. Crunch at the level of 5e, tactical, grid-based combat, plays fast. Only problems I see are it's not really attrition based like most D&D inspired games are, and there's a meta currency your group may dislike. I actually dislike it a bit and am looking into a way of making the awarding of bennies (stupid name!) more based on game mechanics and less on GM fiat.

If you're talking inspiration/hero points, I understand. I haven't been able to get my players involved in the ebb-and-flow of this, and it makes it really fail.

What I've done is transform it to a permanent "bennie" - aka "soul coin". The lowest level is just the Hero Point made permanent. And in addition to "just getting one" I also include them as rewards found with treasure. I also have "higher" levels that produce greater effects (like "your roll is a 20 - not a natural 20 - just a 20", "reroll twice and take the better", etc.)
They seem fine with that, but it definitely allows them to punch above their weight.

Bennies are pretty fundamental to Savage Worlds. they are less "metacurrency" like inspiration than they are somethings that serves a similar purpose to hit points. PCs are supposed to have them and use them to mitigate the inherent swinginess (read: deadliness) of SW combat, until they run out. Getting rid of them makes SW a very swingy, very deadly game.

 

[Blue]

Did your group make any decisions @Blue?

They still aren't at the point with their baby they are ready to run, so they haven't made a call. I know I've made suggestions from this list. I have to ask what the current forerunners are.