Looking for help balancing a prestige class

[drunkadelic]

Howdy everyone.

Currently, I'm playing in Rune's Another Runic Story Hour: Kingdom of Kalamar in the Dream. My character a Clr2 / Bar1, serves the Battlerager, a diety with a portfolio that's easy to guess from his name. Just to make things interesting, he's allowed me to try and come up with a prestige class for my character that combines the Barbarian and Cleric together in a holy way... but only if it's balanced. Here's what I've come up with so far, and I'd appreciate any input or suggestions you all may have.

Also, lots of thanks to Wulf for inspiration for some of the abilities my prestige class has from his Heroes of High Favor: Dwarves book. I've been peeking at Rune's copy when he doesn't have his nose jammed in it himself and it's fantastic.

Sentinel of Rage

Hit Die
- d10

Requirements
- Worshipper of Battlerager
- Ability to Rage
- Ability to Cast 3rd Level Divine Spells
- Fulfillment of Divine Trials set by Church

Skills at new level = 2 + Int modifier
- Climb
- Concentration
- Heal
- Intimidate
- Jump
- Spellcraft
- Spot

Class Features
- Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Proficient with all martial and simple weapons; Proficient with all types of armor, but certain Barbarian abilities may be lost if armor heavier than "light" is worn.
- Favored Weapon: If the character does not already have it, he gains the feat: "Weapon Focus: Axe" at 1st level, as the Axe is Battlerager's favored weapon.
- Additional Rages: At 2nd, 6th, and 9th levels, the amount of times the character can rage per day increases by one.
- Spells: At 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th levels, a Sentinel increases their divine spellcasting level by one, gaining new spells and number of spells per day.
- Grim Aura: At 3rd Level the Sentinels determination in battle is so unwavering that all enemies that attack him in melee suffer the effects of Bane (-1 to hit, -1 to fear saves). This ability lasts as long as the hostile creature remains in an adjacent position to the Sentinel. This ability does not function if a Sentinel is Unconscious, Paralyzed, or otherwise incapacitated.
- Extended Rage: At 5th level, the Sentinel gains the feat Extended Rage (from MotW) for free.
- Compulsion of Battle: By 6th level, the Sentinel's bloodlust has become so strong that he will seek to enter melee as soon as possible. Every round after combat begins that the Sentinel is *not* engaged in Melee, he suffers a -2 circumstance penalty on all his actions as the compulsion to get "stuck in" gnaws at him. Likewise, if the Sentinel ever willfully and knowingly retreats from a battle (barring magical fear and other effects) he may not rage or cast higher than 1st level spells until proper penance is made (Usually, an Atonement ) As a benefit to this however, the Sentinel no longer applies the -2 AC penalty when charging.
- Damage Reduction: At 7th level, the Sentinel gains DR1
- Improved Rage: At 8th level, when a Sentinel rages he gains +6 to his STR and CON instead of the previous +4. The AC penalty, however remains at -2.
- Aura of Menace: At 9th level, divine favor radiates from the Sentinel, acting as a 15ft circle of Fear that only affects hostile creatures. This can be supressed at will, except when raging. Also, as above, this ability does not work when the Sentinel is unconcious, paralyzed or otherwise incapacitated.
- Fury of Battle: at 10th level, the Sentinel has honed his rage so sharply that he is considered to be always raging if engaged in melee combat. This ability can *not* be supressed. Also, he is no longer winded after a rage.

BAB = Level of Sentinel
Fort = 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7
Ref = 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5
Will = 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7

Thanks again.

Drunkadelic

 

[Rune]

Hi, Drunkadelic. Here are my initial thoughts on your prestige class:

Sentinel of Rage (title subject to change, of course)

Hit Die
- d10

Requirements
- Any Non-lawful alignement
- Worshipper of Battle Rager
- Base Attack bonus of +5ish
- Ability to Cast 3rd Level Divine Spells
- Fulfillment of Divine Trials set by Church (or something like that)
- Access to the Strength Domain
- Feats: Cleave, Iron Will, Power Attack, and Toughness
- 7 Ranks in Concentrate
- 7 Ranks in Intimidate

Skills at new level = 2 + Int modifier
- Climb
- Concentration
- Craft
- Heal
- Intimidate
- Jump
- Knowledge (religion)
- Listen
- Spellcraft


Class Features
- Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Proficient with all martial and simple weapons; Proficient with all types of armor, but certain Barbarian abilities may be lost if armor heavier than "light" is worn.
- Favored Weapon: If the character does not already have it, he gains the feat: "Weapon Focus: Battleaxe" at 1st level, as the battleaxe is Battle Rager's favored weapon.
- Additional Rages: At 3rd, 6th, and 8th levels, the amount of times the character can rage per day increases by one.
- Spells: At 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th levels, a Sentinel increases their divine spellcasting level by one, gaining new spells and number of spells per day.
- Grim Aura: At 3rd Level the Sentinels determination in battle is so unwavering that all enemies that attack him in melee suffer the effects of Bane (-1 to hit, -1 to fear saves). This ability lasts as long as the hostile creature threatens the Sentinel. This ability does not function if a Sentinel is Unconscious, Paralyzed, or otherwise incapacitated.
- Extended Rage: At 5th level, the Sentinel gains the feat Extended Rage (from MotW) for free (as I don't have MotW, I'd like to know exactly what it its and what it does and what it's prerequisites are before considering it).
- Compulsion of Battle: By 6th level, the Sentinel's bloodlust has become so strong that he will seek to enter melee as soon as possible. Every round after combat begins that the Sentinel is *not* engaged in Melee, he suffers a -2 circumstance penalty on all his actions as the compulsion to get "stuck in" gnaws at him. Likewise, if the Sentinel ever willfully and knowingly retreats from a battle (barring magical fear and other effects) he may not rage or cast any divine spells until proper penance is made (Usually, an Atonement ) As a benefit to this however, the Sentinel no longer applies the -2 AC penalty when raging.
- Damage Reduction: At 7th level, the Sentinel gains DR1
- Uncanny Dodge: At 8th level, the Sentinel retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) if caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. If the Sentinel already has this ability, this ability stacks with it (increasing the category by one step).
- Aura of Menace: At 9th level, divine favor radiates from the Sentinel, acting as a 15ft circle of Fear that only affects hostile creatures. This can be supressed at will, except when raging. Also, as above, this ability does not work when the Sentinel is unconcious, paralyzed or otherwise incapacitated.
- Fury of Battle: at 10th level, the Sentinel has honed his rage so sharply that he is considered to be always raging if engaged in melee combat. This ability can *not* be supressed. Also, he is no longer winded after a rage.

BAB = Level of Sentinel
Fort = 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7
Ref = 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5
Will = 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7

 

[trentonjoe]

Just some comments on the special abilities.

THe two auras- Aura effect are really good. They are equal to persistant spell of the same level. I would change it to a creature is not effected until he is hit in battle by the battleragers axe in combat.

Fury of battle- This also seems very powerful. I don't think there is anything similar to this in the core or splat books. Maybe the battlerager could get the improved rage that barbarians get at high level? I think it is something like +6 str instead of +4.

All in all, I think it is a pretty sound PrC but if I were Dming (and clearly I'm not) I would tweak the above two abilities.

 

[drunkadelic]

As I don't have my copy of MotW here at work, I'm going to take a stab and say that the feat: Extended Rage makes the bearer's rage last for 4 or 5 more rounds than normal. IIRC, it has no prerequisite other than the ability to rage.

I agree with your suggestions except for a few things.

The iron will and toughness feats will further delay the character from access to this class, making a nonhuman ineligable until level 12. The power attack and cleave fit well within the "feel" of the church, but alas, my own character will have to wait on them.

I purposefully didn't mix the barbarians mobility into this melting pot of barbarian and cleric, because I didn't think it would mesh well with the "stay in the thick of things" attitutde my character exudes. Also, it seemed that adding the dodges made the PrC try to do too many things at once. I would like for the 8th level ability to remain Improved rage if possible. The characters focal point is just that, rage, and I think considering the total character level to attain the level would be 15 in this case, and 15 for a standard barbarian, I think it's balanced.

However, upon re-considering the 10th level ability, Fury of Battle, I think that it should only be activated once the character has lost at least 25% of his total HP.

The limits that I hoped would keep this character balanced are the "Compulsion" item. Yes, this character is a combat monster, far better than a cleric toe-to-toe, and far more able to cope with damage than a barbarian, but imagine the loss of tactics as every spell slinger curses as their readied fireball would blast me out of the water too as I foolishly charge the front ranks.

I hope we can meet a profitable agreement, Mr. Rune.

 

[Rune]

Originally posted by drunkadelic :
As I don't have my copy of MotW here at work, I'm going to take a stab and say that the feat: Extended Rage makes the bearer's rage last for 4 or 5 more rounds than normal. IIRC, it has no prerequisite other than the ability to rage.

I'll consider it.

The iron will and toughness feats will further delay the character from access to this class, making a nonhuman ineligable until level 12. The power attack and cleave fit well within the "feel" of the church, but alas, my own character will have to wait on them.

The way I count it is that a non-human, non-fighter will have enough feats to cover it by level 9.

I purposefully didn't mix the barbarians mobility into this melting pot of barbarian and cleric, because I didn't think it would mesh well with the "stay in the thick of things" attitutde my character exudes.

Also, it seemed that adding the dodges made the PrC try to do too many things at once. I would like for the 8th level ability to remain Improved rage if possible. The characters focal point is just that, rage, and I think considering the total character level to attain the level would be 15 in this case, and 15 for a standard barbarian, I think it's balanced.

I included the Uncanny Dodge because I very adamantly object to the idea of including Improved rage, especially at a level lower than 10th. Frankly, I don't think that this prestige class should be more appealing than barbarian for characters who want to rage, or even as appealing. I like the different flavor of the 10th level ability, though, which is why I'll keep it with some modification.

However, upon re-considering the 10th level ability, Fury of Battle, I think that it should only be activated once the character has lost at least 25% of his total HP.

Frankly, I'm more inclined to change this to an even more situational thing and make that activation point any time that the character suffers a certain amount of damage (from any sources) in a single turn (and it lasts only while in melee, of course) equal to something like Con bonus times character level. Also, upon reconsideration, I think I'd lose the winded immunity.

The limits that I hoped would keep this character balanced are the "Compulsion" item. Yes, this character is a combat monster, far better than a cleric toe-to-toe, and far more able to cope with damage than a barbarian, but imagine the loss of tactics as every spell slinger curses as their readied fireball would blast me out of the water too as I foolishly charge the front ranks.

I love this class ability and, aside from my minor modification (I altered the advantage from a negation of the penalty to AC from a charge to the negation of the penalty to AC from raging), I'll keep it, as is.

I hope we can meet a profitable agreement, Mr. Rune.

We'll certainly work on it!

Originally posted by trentonjoe:
The two auras- Aura effect are really good. They are equal to persistant spell of the same level. I would change it to a creature is not effected until he is hit in battle by the battleragers axe in combat.

Good tweak. Consider it included.

Fury of battle- This also seems very powerful. I don't think there is anything similar to this in the core or splat books. Maybe the battlerager could get the improved rage that barbarians get at high level? I think it is something like +6 str instead of +4.

I've already explained above why I'd rather not include improved rage. With the added restriction, I think that the Fury of battle ability shouldn't be too powerful. If I wanted a pure raging class, I'd still go with straight barbarian.

All in all, I think it is a pretty sound PrC but if I were Dming (and clearly I'm not) I would tweak the above two abilities.

Thanks for the advice. All of my above suggestions were made right off the top of my head. I'll not commit to anything until I'm sure that we've worked something out that won't break my game. And, I'm (not really) sorry to say, drunkadelic, I'm going to probably err on the side of caution more often than not, when it comes to self-designed prestige classes. But you know what? You might just like a prestige class in the Kalamar Player's Handbook that I'll be getting, y'know?

As written, incedentally, your character wouldn't qualify until level 12, which knocks off the top two levels of the PrC. I don't have a problem with making the feat prereqs: cleave and power attack, and toughness. As a matter of fact, despite the clerical nature of this PrC, it doesn't seem that iron will fits in well, anyway.

 

[trentonjoe]

Please post the final verdict when you guys are done. I am really interested in it.

 

[Kosh]

What's up with the reflex save?...

Is it a typo?... Should it be a weak save?... I would think that with two strong saves, and the overall power of the class, a weak reflex would be better... I even heard you say something about not wanting this class to be as mobile as a normal barbarian (which I think is a pretty cool image)...

 

[Rune]

Sorry? I thought the Reflex save was weak. It should be.

 

[drunkadelic]

It's all good guys. Half of why I wanted to do this was to see if I could create a non-munchie PrC, also, I've got some ideas about my character that i'd like to evolve in-game, and that's what I was primarily thinking of.

I got to thinking about the improved rage again, and one would have to be at least a combination of barbarian/cleric of total 9th level to gain this PrC, and then with the 8 more levels of this PrC would make the character an effective 17th level character to obtain. As grim as it sounds, I don't think I'll ever get to see 17th level with this, but he would not be under 10th level if that is your concern.

Trentonjoe had a really good idea about the aura effects, and I like those, although they are less powerful than mine. But they make more sense.

As for Uncanny Dodge, why include it so late in the PrC advancement? It seems a moot point to me anyways, as the character has such a crap reflex save to start with it feels like it would just be tacked on. Improved Rage might be beyond your liking or want of inclusion, but I think there are better things we can use to substitute than this. The imagery I get from the character is not:

/spider sense on
Dakken senses danger from an incoming fireball and leaps away
/spider sense off

Unfortunately for my character it's more like.

Dakken, in the middle of melee, as usual, gets fried to a crisp by a fireball...nearly dead...but then auto-drops into rage, chraging straight towards the mage.

Perhaps we can find something that might work a little better.

However, in conclusion, you are absolutely correct about the Kalamar PHB, as well as Kenzer develops their stuff, I'm sure that the book will be jam-packed with stuff from the pros. Before we make any decision, lets see what it has to offer.

 

[Lord Ben]

The Kalamar PHB doesn't have any raging clerics, unfortunatly. It's one of the things I was most hoping for. I'm currently working on my own hybrid class though. Similiar to how the Infiltrator is a rogue/ranger kind of character. I was making a cleric with rage and spells, normal 1st level class.

The initial draft was substituting turn undead for rage 1/day - works just fine for a quick fix.

The next draft eliminated medium and heavy armor prof's, favored will saves, and had 2nd level spells at 4th level - similiar to sorceror. They got martial weapon profs, bab of a fighter, and a decent number of barbarian abilities like DR at higher levels, and a special rage domain. At first look it seemed more powerful, but I think in play it would be no better/worse then a bbn1/clrX

I don't want to hijack your thread, but this has been a work in progress for me for awhile. I have not yet commited anything to paper since no players of mine wanted to be a Battle Rager.