Looking for new fantasy RPG - story & roleplay oriented !

[William Ronald]

Originally posted by Mark:
Never has been like that for me. Roleplaying in D&D doesn't have to be about *just* the numbers.

As someone who is familiar with Mark's work, I have to agree that he is one of many people who does not create "hack-n-slash" fests. Any adventure can have elements of roleplaying, problem solving, and creative solution. I have run a few such adventures at EN World Chicago Gamedays, set in a campaign world that I share with a few others, and have featured such encounters as these:

-- a worried apothecary.
-- a mystery about a ruined castle that the characters gradually solved by using their observation skills, finding clues, and puzzling things out in character. They were able to glean some information about the foes that they would latter encounter.(My motto: You can challenge a player's mind and heart, as well as his dice rolling hand.)
-- roleplaying with people in a town, each of whom have heard different things about a leading citizen. By role playing the encounters, the players learned enough information to avoid walking into an ambush.

I think one problem that I have seen with some supplements is that there is no reason why a town or ruin exists. In Locus Jalston, Mark showed why the town exists and how it interacts with the surrounding countryside.

Also, I have a rule. A DM can decide NOT to allow a supplement. D&D does not have to be about number crunching, although I do love a good hard fought battle -- particularly when the characters truly have a GOOD reason to fight someone.

In my own campaign, there have been nights where no one has rolled a single die -- the evening was focused on role playing and strategy. On other nights, we have had full scale battles between PCs and long established enemies.

I think the quality of a gaming experience depends in large part on the DM and the players. This can be clearly seen at conventions. I have sat at wonderful tables, using a rules system some have labeled as "not the best" where role playing was crucial and combat was light. I have been at other tables where I truly did not enjoy myself.

Originally posted by MerricB
There's nothing like leading with your chin. "it isn't the best RPG". Right. "It isn't the best RPG for me", I think you left out. Really, saying that "It isn't the best RPG" on a board devoted to D&D is a bit... tactless.

Shadowlord, I do understand some of your frustration. However, you have to admit that you kind of walked into some of the criticism you received. (It was not as bad as being a new crewman in a red shirt during the original Star Trek series.)

Some additional advice: Create encounters and scenarios where social skills, problem solving, and role playing matter more than combat. (In some cases, combat may lead to a nice cold cell in someone's castle -- or worse.) Also, you can have role playing even in an adventure. For example, the party may encounter someone who has possible answers or may be a potential ally.

Shadowlord, good luck in finding a system or adventures that you enjoy. I think the D&D rules, as well as several of the other systems mentioned, have the potential for great role playing. However, good role playing ultimately depends on game masters and players. Although it is a cliche, there is truth to the statement "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." (I avoided Dorothy Parker's version of the statement. It might offend Eric Noah's grandmother. )

 

[JohnNephew]

Atlas games has put out some stuff under their Coriolis line that combines some of the better gaming systems, [...]

If you are looking to change DnD I highly recommend picking up the Unknown Armies and Ars Magica fusions and playing around with them till you find something that convinces both you and your players you are going to have a good time not fighting all the time.

The Ars Magica Coriolis book, by the way, is at the printer right now. It's due to be delivered to us mid-month, and should be on sale at Origins and available in game stores around the same time. The title is The Black Monks of Glastonbury: http://www.atlas-games.com/product_tables/AG3402.html

As others have mentioned, the Ars rulebook is available for a free downlod. Try before you buy.

 

[EarthsShadow]

Oh boy am I going to get in trouble here... hehehe

Over half of these posts are trying to convince you to stick with D&D and to convince you that the GM and players are what makes the game combat heavy vs. roleplaying heavy...what a bunch of hogwash. The original post stated his disatisfaction with D&D and the D&D system, and how much combat takes prevalance compared to how much roleplaying is emphasized and he is looking for a game that really tries to promote roleplaying in a single volume or two.

Trying to convince him to not get anything else was not his aim, he wants alternative suggestions.

Try this alternative, already stated, and its Talislanta. In a SINGLE volume of 40 bucks, you get a book that is 500 pages, it is comprised of a great world guide, gamemaster guide, monster manual and player's rules all in ONE book. The 4th edition came out two years ago, and they have not made any other supplements because the 4e book is that good and speaks for itself. It has full rules, and the combat rules are approximately 10-15 pages in length, total. The magic system is very freeform, the world is very unique and medieval, and it have enough various cultures that can make our own world seem dull in comparison. It is a real work of art.

Plus, the die system is very simple, which also uses a standard d20 die roll. *Personally, I think the designers of 3e highjacked the Talis die system, but that's my own opinion* It's designed around this philosophy: The player states his intent with whatever he wishes to accomplish. If he wants to use a skill, he has to tell the GM what skill he is using and how he is planning on using it. Everything is based off skills, including weapons, magic, and everything else in between. After he states his intent, the GM will put in a modifier, and then the person makes his d20 roll on a Action Table, which every character sheet has.

When the d20 is done rolling, you look on the Action Table and figure out the results, and that is the die system. NO need to track various Target Numbers for different skills. It's that simple, and its very very fast and can be very furious.

The magic system is pretty freeform. It has Orders (schools of magic) which are actually different than each other. There are no spell lists like in D&D, and the persons are able to create their own spells using the rules provided, and its very very simple. Just use the guidelines and poof, you can have ten spells created in a half hour. Different orders provide different bonuses and penalties to the varous magic skills, called Modes, that a person can get as skills. When you decide to cast a spell, you already have the difficulty of the spell figured out when you designed the spell and you just have to check on the Action Table to see how well you did.

If you want to try something else for a change of pace, give this game a try. You'll like it for what you are looking for.

 

[Golem Joe]

For me, RPG is more than that, much more. Thus I'm looking for an old-school RPG that emphasizes roleplay and is story centered instead of filled with numbers & stats and combat oriented.
Combat is fine, but it's only a small part of an RPG to me, and rules should be short, easy and flexible. The "holy rule balance" shouldn't restrict good stories and unforgettable game moments. As long as it's believable.

You, my friend, need a copy of Lejendary Adventure! It manages to capture much of the spirit of DnD (that is, sword and sorcery pulp fantasy) with a much more open, flexible rule system that emphasizes character over stats. It's a skill-based system as opposed to a class based, which makes building the exact character you want easier. Skills are broad-based, so a beginning character with 5-7 skills is quite capable from the get go.

You can check out the Lejendary Adventure Quickstart if you want a better look at the game system.

IMPORTANT: I'm not interested in any manga/anime, oriental, gothic or sci-fi RPGs; I want a classic medieval fantasy RPG. Can you help me find it?
It should preferably come in only one or two corebooks, with moderate support, not the zillion of books as in D&D or GURPS.

Three books, one for players. Plus ample support in the form of adventure modules, campaign setting (the Lejendary Earth) and Lejends magazine (soon to be defunct, but the two years of back issues are available on CD-Rom). And if that isn't enough, the Troll Lord's Gygaxian fantasy series (Canting Crew, World Builder) offer support as well. If that still isn't enough for you, its not difficult to convert your old DnD library to LA.

 

[diaglo]

That said, since you've expressed your bias, I'll give you a rules-lite suggestion (surprised diaglo hasn't already done this):

OD&D white box

i did. look back at the beginning of this thread.

 

[diaglo]

Re: Re: Looking for new fantasy RPG - story & roleplay oriented !

'Old school' and 'not combat oriented' are, in my experience, mutually exclusive. OD&D originated in a war game, and it shows it. That combat focus is common to all 'old school' games I've seen.

Unless, of course, you have some very different definition of 'old school'

YMMV, but i'm old school. and i didn't find it combat heavy. i found it character heavy. some sessions we rolled every other minute. but most sessions we didn't pick up the dice.

Original D&D (1974) is the only true game. All the other editions are just poor imitations of the real thing.

 

[Shadowlord]

Over half of these posts are trying to convince you to stick with D&D and to convince you that the GM and players are what makes the game combat heavy vs. roleplaying heavy...what a bunch of hogwash. The original post stated his disatisfaction with D&D and the D&D system, and how much combat takes prevalance compared to how much roleplaying is emphasized and he is looking for a game that really tries to promote roleplaying in a single volume or two.

Trying to convince him to not get anything else was not his aim, he wants alternative suggestions.

Try this alternative, already stated, and its Talislanta.

Well said.

Can you tell me a bit about this world? It's not only the rules system that interests me.

I read there aren't any elves and the world is filled with wierd races. I'm not really in favor of mixing all manner of cultures neither. So it isn't really "classic fantasy".

In other terms, how standard is it? Something refreshing doesn't have to overthrow all standards IMO.

 

[Desdichado]

I think there's an important distinction. My post, and the others I've read, have not tried to convince anyone to stick with D&D if that's not what he wants, they merely point out that his complaint about the game is not justified in our experience.

Again, if you come to a D&D message board slamming D&D, I don't know why you expect anything else.

 

[Tsyr]

Well said.

Can you tell me a bit about this world? It's not only the rules system that interests me.

For comparison, are there elves & dwarves like we know them or is it filled with only weird abominations? For the record, are there even humans and orcs etc?

In other terms, how standard is it? Something refreshing doesn't have to overthrow all standards IMO.

No elves, no dwarves, no gnomes, no halflings, no orcs, no humans.

However, there are a number of races that are very SIMILAR to those...

 

[Shadowlord]

Is it a dark gothic world or more a light faery place? Or both or none...?