D&D 5E Looking for Turn Undead alternate rule

[nightspaladin]

Personally, I like 2 options presented here mix together. I'd go with a concentration based radius from the cleric that deals X radiant damage every round to undead, and all undead in the radius are at disadvantage to attack rolls. Instead of the typically D&D/pathfinder, blast of channelled energy that it is often described as, it is a beacon of light and life, that sears all of those that wear false life and forces them to avert their eyes in it's presence(thus the disadvantage)

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Personally, I've always seen Turn Undead as a more defensive measure, overall. I'd opt for perhaps using it as a sort of "protection from evil, 10'r" type of power.

The cleric can force undead away from him at some radius (say, 10' +1' per level). Undead (which I'd read into as 'supernatural from non-matierial-plane' types like demons, devils, etc), can not enter the area and are slowly forced to move outside of it if they are in it. The cleric must Concentrate. The cleric can not move quickly (regular walk at best). The cleric and all those inside may not attack the undead. To this I'd make sure to word "attack" as "attack as interpreted by the DM", and not "attack" as in the mechanical definition of the word in the game. Basically, if the players try and get around 'attack' by forcing the undead into n area that will kill/destroy them (say, forcing a vampire down a hallway out into the sunlight), as soon as the undead takes damage, the protection ends; it was the cleric and/or his companions that "broke the truce", so to speak, regardless of how they did it.

I like the Disadvantage idea, as this goes well with 5e, but as I said...I see Turn Undead as more defensive. By removing specific game mechanics, it removes the potential for players to find an "I win" loophole or six that you will have to patch. Each time you patch it, the players will feel more and more like you are punishing them for 'clever play'. By not having specific game mechanics that are on/off, black/white, etc you, as DM, leave it all up to your judgement.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[GX.Sigma]

Interesting option, and simple.

@GX.Sigma : how would you apply this condition?

Turn Undead
1st-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, DF
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You forcefully present a holy symbol, and each undead creature in a 30-foot cone in front of you that can see or hear you must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target is frightened, even if it is normally immune to that condition (a creature has to specifically resist turning to resist this effect). Each affected creature may repeat the saving throw at the end of its turn to end the condition early.

At higher levels: Destroys (or stuns/controls) weaker undead.

 

[Kobold Stew]

As I suggested on the other thread, I like the following:

Channel Divinity: Turn Undead
As an action, you present your holy symbol and speak a prayer censuring the undead. Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw. If the creature fails its saving throw, it is unable to move closer to you as long as concentration is maintained or until it takes damage. A turned creature can't willingly move to a space within 30 feet of you. It also can't take reactions.

 

[77IM]

How about just using the "frightened" condition?

This is brilliant. Why didn't I think of it?

 

[Guillaume Coursol]

Interesting option, and simple.

@GX.Sigma : how would you apply this condition? I see a few options:

a) instantaneous effect when the cleric whips out his holy symbol. Then, sub questions: (i) save or no save? and (ii) limited area of effect (e.g. 30') or line of sight?
b) continuous effect as of the moment that the cleric holds his holy symbol. Then, sub questions: (i) save or no save? And (ii) limited arear of effect or line of sight?

And: requires concentration

If it's only an instantaneous effect with an ongoing condition, it means that, say, an undead that enters the room after the turn undead power was triggered, could walk up to the cleric unhindered by this power, even though his undead colleagues are cowering from the cleric?

I'd go with b) wis save
If fail frightened, if success still has disadvantage but can move as they wish.
The original turn undead is quite powerful (virtually remove them from combat on fail save) which is not the case with frightened so it's understandable that there is a consequence even on successful save.

Duration concentration. (Up to 1 minute?)

I'd still go with the original destroy undead on top of it.

I haven't played 5e yet so I might see advantage/disadvantage maybe not as powerful as they are.

 

[Meliath1742]

The way I look at it is that turn undead is powerful because your calling directly on your deities divine power. Why not leave it as is but have the cleric become fatigued after the usage...dictating that using it has a cost. It would make a cleric think about using it as a later option instead of going to it at the first sign of undead.

 

[Skyscraper]

The way I look at it is that turn undead is powerful because your calling directly on your deities divine power. Why not leave it as is but have the cleric become fatigued after the usage...dictating that using it has a cost. It would make a cleric think about using it as a later option instead of going to it at the first sign of undead.

I would not opt for this solution because my intention is not only to nerf Turn Undead to make undead battles playable or not requiring DM intervention to adapt them to parties with access to Turn Undead; but also because I do not like the cinematic of the undead fleeing. I prefer the undead pushed away but remaining in the vicinity, or being damaged, or being under some kind of disadvantage, or the like.

 

[Skyscraper]

FYI I played with my son this weekend and I used the "impenetrable sphere" option (no save). It was interesting in that they were swarmed by zombies and this power of course allowed them to flee the scene and make it for a safe haven.

I wonder however if this is what I would use for more experienced/older players.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Turn Undead
1st-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, DF
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute

You forcefully present a holy symbol, and each undead creature in a 30-foot cone in front of you that can see or hear you must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target is frightened, even if it is normally immune to that condition (a creature has to specifically resist turning to resist this effect). Each affected creature may repeat the saving throw at the end of its turn to end the condition early.

At higher levels: Destroys (or stuns/controls) weaker undead.

Change: "Each affected creature may repeat the saving throw at the end of its turn to end the condition early."

To: "Each affected creature that leaves the cone may repeat the saving throw at the end of its turn to end the condition early. Each creature that enters the cone must make a new Wisdom saving throw."


Replace 'necromancy' and 'undead' with 'demonology' and 'demons/devils', or 'nature' and 'beast' {or 'insect'}... lots of cool options.

At higher levels:. .. eh, scratch that. Add 'if fail by 5 or more = stun/control. If fail by 10 or more = disable, if fail by 15 or more = destroy. Caster can choose a lesser effect at will.