D&D 5E Looking for unique suggestions on making player resurrections punishing.

[FormerlyHemlock]

The sort of campaigns I enjoy running are more on the brutal side, not as in graphic details but with respect to how punishing mistakes are. I have no issue with TKP's if my party makes a series of bad decisions, but I am wondering how I could go about homebrewing in some relatively hard consequences to player resurrection. I'm looking to add additional hurdles to leap ontop of what 5e rules demand. Obviously "hard consequences" is a subjective measurement and everyone will have their own estimation on what that exactly entails. But I'd just like to see what some other DM/players do or have seen done.

Thanks

This isn't strictly death-related, more injury-related, but:

Scars.

Keep track of HP damage dealt (including while at 0 HP or while dead). Healing magic gives you back your HP but does not erase the scars, nor the pain. (Pain goes away naturally a week or so after the wound is healed.)

It is therefore possible to meet someone and immediately realize by looking at them that, "Wow, this guy has taken thousands of points of damage over his lifetime." The PC's thoughts in-character will be phrased slightly differently (he doesn't know about HP as a unit of measure, just about life-force and wounds) but when you translate it to player-speak that's how it comes out.

NPC reactions may be affected by visible scarring either positively ("whoa, don't mess with this guy!") or negatively ("leave your weapons behind here, troublemaker") or in ways that are hard to classify ("you look like someone who can deal with the dragon problem!"). Some NPCs (like princesses) may go out of their way to avoid HP damage even if they could survive the damage, to avoid scarring. Players who have a certain "look" in mind for their characters will have similar incentives to avoid both injury and death.

 

[Taneras]

You should have led with that

I think what your intention in making "the act of resurrection itself a more difficult process" is giving greater narrative consequence to resurrection, rather than players cavalierly getting resurrected with reliable D&D magic lacking any sense of wonder or mystique.

If "yes", that's what you're looking for, then I have a system I once used you may be interested in. Note that in this system, there was a band of NPCs who the player of a dead PC could borrow a NPC from in the interim until their PC was resurrected.

In an experimental D&D game we added the following three requirements to any spells that resurrect/raise the dead:

1. Symbol of the Cause of Death. A sample of whatever killed the character. This had to be specific. If stabbed by a hobgoblin's spear, then a piece of THAT spear would be required. Sorta like identifying the snake that bit you to know which anti-venom to use. If this component was incorrect, then the resurrection failed, and the caster suffered the same wound that killed the character.
2. Symbol of the Unresolved Quest. A symbolic component of the dead person's unresolved quest, the REASON they would want to come back from the dead, was necessary to retrieve their animating spirit. In this system, it was possible to resurrect someone "against their will" IF you knew their psychology well enough to realize what would lure them back. If this component was incorrect, then the subject returned as corporeal undead.
3. Symbol of Charon's Boatman. A special coin minted in the Underworld was required to reach across the eternal boundary and retrieve the victim's soul. The coin was placed on the corpse's eyes, in its mouth, in its coat pocket, or in its hand. Such coins were rare and traded by temples of death gods & criminal organizations with ties to fiends. If this component was incorrect (e.g. forged coins), then the subject returned as incorporeal undead...or some kind of fiend or "soul stowaway" came back with them.

Wow, this actually gave me chills reading it. I think this would be very fun and will run it by my party. I like how the "recipe" is different for each person (because of #1 and #2) and really enjoy the flavor of #2. I also love the sort of trap in #3 with a forged coin.

Great ideas!

 

[flametitan]

This isn't strictly death-related, more injury-related, but:

Scars.

Keep track of HP damage dealt (including while at 0 HP or while dead). Healing magic gives you back your HP but does not erase the scars, nor the pain. (Pain goes away naturally a week or so after the wound is healed.)

It is therefore possible to meet someone and immediately realize by looking at them that, "Wow, this guy has taken thousands of points of damage over his lifetime." The PC's thoughts in-character will be phrased slightly differently (he doesn't know about HP as a unit of measure, just about life-force and wounds) but when you translate it to player-speak that's how it comes out.

NPC reactions may be affected by visible scarring either positively ("whoa, don't mess with this guy!") or negatively ("leave your weapons behind here, troublemaker") or in ways that are hard to classify ("you look like someone who can deal with the dragon problem!"). Some NPCs (like princesses) may go out of their way to avoid HP damage even if they could survive the damage, to avoid scarring. Players who have a certain "look" in mind for their characters will have similar incentives to avoid both injury and death.

That reminds me of the Nameless One from Planescape: Torment.

"Don't mess with me or I'll scar you with my Knife!"
"Sorry, I don't think I have any room for more scars."

I like that idea.

 

[Quickleaf]

Wow, this actually gave me chills reading it. I think this would be very fun and will run it by my party. I like how the "recipe" is different for each person (because of #1 and #2) and really enjoy the flavor of #2. I also love the sort of trap in #3 with a forged coin.

Great ideas!

Hope you have fun with them. They're not the sort of rules I would suggest to a more "by-the-book" group or with a group that didn't have a good degree of trust between DM and players, but with the right group they're very evocative. IIRC we used these 3 symbols instead of expensive components for raise dead.

If the flavor of #3 doesn't fit your setting (because it assumes an Underworld and Charon), you could always incorporate a "Symbol of Birth" as a requirement like [MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] suggested.

 

[Psikerlord#]

The sort of campaigns I enjoy running are more on the brutal side, not as in graphic details but with respect to how punishing mistakes are. I have no issue with TKP's if my party makes a series of bad decisions, but I am wondering how I could go about homebrewing in some relatively hard consequences to player resurrection. I'm looking to add additional hurdles to leap ontop of what 5e rules demand. Obviously "hard consequences" is a subjective measurement and everyone will have their own estimation on what that exactly entails. But I'd just like to see what some other DM/players do or have seen done.

Thanks

I personally think the best way to sort out raise dead is to .... remove it from the game entirely. No revivify, raise dead or resurrection spells on PC lists. Might still exist outside of that, but highly rare/etc with special setback.

Works pretty sweet. No-one wants to die, that's for sure.

 

[Psikerlord#]

In an experimental D&D game we added the following three requirements to any spells that resurrect/raise the dead:

1. Symbol of the Cause of Death. A sample of whatever killed the character. This had to be specific. If stabbed by a hobgoblin's spear, then a piece of THAT spear would be required. Sorta like identifying the snake that bit you to know which anti-venom to use. If this component was incorrect, then the resurrection failed, and the caster suffered the same wound that killed the character.
2. Symbol of the Unresolved Quest. A symbolic component of the dead person's unresolved quest, the REASON they would want to come back from the dead, was necessary to retrieve their animating spirit. In this system, it was possible to resurrect someone "against their will" IF you knew their psychology well enough to realize what would lure them back. If this component was incorrect, then the subject returned as corporeal undead.
3. Symbol of Charon's Boatman. A special coin minted in the Underworld was required to reach across the eternal boundary and retrieve the victim's soul. The coin was placed on the corpse's eyes, in its mouth, in its coat pocket, or in its hand. Such coins were rare and traded by temples of death gods & criminal organizations with ties to fiends. If this component was incorrect (e.g. forged coins), then the subject returned as incorporeal undead...or some kind of fiend or "soul stowaway" came back with them.

This is awesome

 

[Shasarak]

Instead of resurrecting the character why not just do it the old fashioned way of adding an extra 1 after the name, so that if Bob the Fighter dies then the next character is Bob 2 the Fighter.

That way you do not have to worry about "fun" consequences of your character being resurrected.

 

[RevelationMD]

You should have led with that

I think what your intention in making "the act of resurrection itself a more difficult process" is giving greater narrative consequence to resurrection, rather than players cavalierly getting resurrected with reliable D&D magic lacking any sense of wonder or mystique.

If "yes", that's what you're looking for, then I have a system I once used you may be interested in. Note that in this system, there was a band of NPCs who the player of a dead PC could borrow a NPC from in the interim until their PC was resurrected.

In an experimental D&D game we added the following three requirements to any spells that resurrect/raise the dead:

1. Symbol of the Cause of Death. A sample of whatever killed the character. This had to be specific. If stabbed by a hobgoblin's spear, then a piece of THAT spear would be required. Sorta like identifying the snake that bit you to know which anti-venom to use. If this component was incorrect, then the resurrection failed, and the caster suffered the same wound that killed the character.
2. Symbol of the Unresolved Quest. A symbolic component of the dead person's unresolved quest, the REASON they would want to come back from the dead, was necessary to retrieve their animating spirit. In this system, it was possible to resurrect someone "against their will" IF you knew their psychology well enough to realize what would lure them back. If this component was incorrect, then the subject returned as corporeal undead.
3. Symbol of Charon's Boatman. A special coin minted in the Underworld was required to reach across the eternal boundary and retrieve the victim's soul. The coin was placed on the corpse's eyes, in its mouth, in its coat pocket, or in its hand. Such coins were rare and traded by temples of death gods & criminal organizations with ties to fiends. If this component was incorrect (e.g. forged coins), then the subject returned as incorporeal undead...or some kind of fiend or "soul stowaway" came back with them.

Now, these ideas are nothing short of genius

Love 'em!

 

[jrowland]

If the flavor of #3 doesn't fit your setting (because it assumes an Underworld and Charon), you could always incorporate a "Symbol of Birth" as a requirement like [MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] suggested.

Those coins (or symbol of birth) could be worth the same as the diamond requirement of the spells, thus keeping the "gp sink" in place. The Death clerics/criminals/etc and such part with them at a hefty price. Alternatively go to hell and get them yourself.

 

[Quickleaf]

Those coins (or symbol of birth) could be worth the same as the diamond requirement of the spells, thus keeping the "gp sink" in place. The Death clerics/criminals/etc and such part with them at a hefty price. Alternatively go to hell and get them yourself.

Good thinking.

The original idea for the "3 symbols" method of resurrection was a short campaign in a setting where resurrection was far more common than in typical D&D. Not commonly available, but there were high-up NPCs who'd been resurrected multiple times. So there were lots of setting assumptions that were in the background that might not fit with a typical D&D game.

Different inheritance and succession laws spelled out when someone lost their inheritance/crown due to death (typically if not resurrected in X days). Also, there was a rich conman merchant who evaded debtors through jumping legal loopholes with resurrection.

There were huge funerary/rebirth cults with hidden political agendas, and there was even one nation where the old warriors were kept preserved in a vault for resurrection when a prophesy came true, returning to fight once more.

And adventuring parties that made use of resurrection magics were usually seen as toadies of the death temples or criminal organizations.