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[Dannyalcatraz]

Not really a restriction per se, but the DMG sets up the tables so the highest level magic item you find is Level + 4.

Do you mean on the treasure tables?

 

[BarkingDeathSquirrel]

etc.

Right, but I was expecting some kind of racial ability whereby they'd be able to really boost their Str (and possibly Con) as they leveled.

I know they also get that oversized weapon thing, but this...it just doesn't feel right. They're not "monstrous" enough.

That ferocity ability doesn't do it for me either. I'd be much more afraid of something inordinately strong (thereby getting hit & damage bonuses) than one that gets one last strike to bring you down. That's Captain Ahab and Khan Noonien Singh territory, not the schtick of a massive meat-slab of a monster.

This means a Minotaur is no more beefy than a Dragonborn who follows the same basic path, while being up 50-100lbs heavier and between 9-11" taller on average.

I suppose this is an unfortunate consequence of the new racial stat math in which there are no negative mods and mechanical balance is the king.

One thing you have to remember is that the Racial Traits at the back of the monster manual are intended for NPC's or for players who really, really want to play that monster now.

Take a look at the differences between the MM Warforged entry and the true PC-Race entry in Dragon, for example.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One thing you have to remember is that the Racial Traits at the back of the monster manual are intended for NPC's or for players who really, really want to play that monster now.

There are 2 ways to read that: either you mean they'll have different rules down the road that address this issue or that they're trying to do away with LA.

If its the former, they shouldn't have included the Minotaur at all until the right ruleset was available. I'm at least that patient.

If you mean they're trying to avoid LA, well with as many fixes as there are to the LA thing- both homebrewed and 3rd party publisher- this is no excuse.

And with all the hype that 4Ed was going to make PC race matter more, this again is no excuse.

The mods they got at creation are just fine...if they had added a racial ability that took into account that these critters are supposed to be ungodly strong at some point. Instead of the assinine last strike ability, Minotaurs (and races like them) would instead gain additional Str points as the PC levels up.

As it stands, the Minotaur PC will never be scarier than the Dragonborn one in a pure melee fight.

 

[Fanaelialae]

And with all the hype that 4Ed was going to make PC race matter more, this again is no excuse.

The mods they got at creation are just fine...if they had added a racial ability that took into account that these critters are supposed to be ungodly strong at some point. Instead of the assinine last strike ability, Minotaurs (and races like them) would instead gain additional Str points as the PC levels up.

As it stands, the Minotaur PC will never be scarier than the Dragonborn one in a pure melee fight.

Firstly, the "playable" minotaur from the MM is intended for helping the DM create NPCs; using it as a playable race is purely optional and this is mentioned at the beginning of the "playable races" section.

4e does make race matter more, just not in the way that you're thinking.

Take a look at the Warforged article up on DDI, for example. You can customize your warforged with specialized feats and even paragon paths. You automatically start with a unique racial power. These are things that can distinguish you quite significantly from other characters. Because of how differently feats and paragon paths (compared to prestige classes) function in 4e as opposed to 3.x, practically anyone can afford to take at least a few racial options.

The reason minotaurs don't gain additional strength as they level (beyond what other races get) is that it would destroy the balance inherent in the system. Every +2 Str is +1 to hit (with Str attacks). In order to compensate for that you'd have to do something really wonky, like giving them -1 to hit for every +2 Str gain or you'd quickly break the balance in the system.

The 3.x LA / ECL system balanced creatures around the idea that you could balance extra power with additional weaknesses. Unfortunately, this rarely worked in practice (because balancing a high +Str with a high -Int is virtually meaningless for a fighter until Int damage comes into play and then that fighter drops in the first hit).

Why should a minotaur be scarier than a dragonborn of equal level? Each is scary in it's own right.

In my opinion the new system is vastly superior. It enforces balance by limiting extremes, rather than trying to compensate for extremes with extremes.

 

[sukael]

As it stands, the Minotaur PC will never be scarier than the Dragonborn one in a pure melee fight.

...except that the dragonborn can't use that giant-sized greataxe or falchion.

 

[The Grackle]

As it stands, the Minotaur PC will never be scarier than the Dragonborn one in a pure melee fight.

If they're the same level. That's game balance for ya.


But I do kinda get what you're saying here. My answer would be that instead of giving them a Str bonus that would dramatically change combat-effectiveness, they should get some racial feature that increases their carrying capacity, or a Feats of Strength encounter power. That way the two characters would be similar combatants, but the minotaur could still feel properly herculean at times.

 

[Aegir]

My answer would be that instead of giving them a Str bonus that would dramatically change combat-effectiveness, they should get some racial feature that increases their carrying capacity, or a Feats of Strength encounter power.

They kinda get this already, with the Oversized ability. Bumpnig weapons up one step isn't the boon it was in 3E, but its still a bonus that only one other race gets.

Not to mention, Goring Charge is a fairly decent attack, too.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I admitted already that the oversized weapon ability does mitigate my gripe somewhat, but as The Grackle points out, there are other ways that could have made them feel more substantial, even without actually giving them more Str.

 

[gribble]

I admitted already that the oversized weapon ability does mitigate my gripe somewhat, but as The Grackle points out, there are other ways that could have made them feel more substantial, even without actually giving them more Str.

Maybe there will be something more appropriate when/if they're released as a full PC race with racial feats and the like?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Possibly, but by then, I probably will have moved on- at this point, I'm not all that enthusiastic about 4Ed, and neither are the other players in my various game groups (DMs or players).

OTOH, a release analagous to Savage Species might grab my attention enough to buy it.