Looking into Star Trek Adventures

[Micah Sweet]

Let me start by saying that, while I have played TTRPGs pretty much continuously since the Metzer box, almost of all of my experience has been with so-called "traditional games". I have played every version of D&D, but also Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, Deadlands, L5R, 7th Sea, TSR Marvel, and more recently several D&D-derived 3pp systems (of which Level Up is my favorite for play).

All of that being said, I have very little experience with any more narrative system, any game that makes extensive use of metacurrency as it is commonly defined, or any game where player agency at the table extends beyond the PC. The few times I have tried such a game, I immediately balked.

In an attempt to ease myself into such games, I have decided to start a campaign with Mophidius' Star Trek Adventures. While I am told that the game is still trad in a lot of ways, I figured that and my love for the subject matter would make the whole process easier for me.

What I am looking for from this thread is any insight into STA (and potentially other 2d20 games) that can help me understand what the game is like in play and what I can expect. Personal experience, as a GM or a player, is great. Links are ok, but if it's to a video I likely will not watch it (I don't watch gaming videos, or YouTube in general much as a rule).

Thanks in advance. What I'm hoping to accomplish here is increase my understanding of other kinds of gaming outside of the traditional model, but not so far outside that I know I'll mentally reject it.

 

[Staffan]

I haven't played it myself, but I've seen it played on the actual play Shield of Tomorrow that used to run on Geek & Sundry before it collapsed (most of the same crew moved to QueueTimes where they're running a different campaign). It is quite Star Trek-y, though I don't know to what degree that is due to the participants' love for the setting and to what degree it's due to the game itself.

It is still quite traditional in its structure. The main narrative stuff is the Momentum/Threat mechanic. Momentum is a meta-currency the players collectively have, and which they usually gain by exceptional success – more successes than what a task demands generates Momentum which can either be spent to actually improve the results, or be banked for later. So let's say the PCs are surveying a planet from orbit. That's not really a difficult thing, so the difficulty is set to 0 – the PCs will get basic info about the planet. The PC in charge of surveying would then roll 2d20 vs Reason + Science. Because you're using the ship to do it, the ship also gets to roll to assist, with 1d20 vs its Sensors + Science. Every d20 that rolls equal to the target value or lower is a success. Since the difficulty is 0, every success above 0 generates one Momentum which you can either spend right away to ask a question about the planet, or save for later.

The most common uses of Momentum is to gain information, get extra dice on a roll, establish an advantageous fact related to what you're doing ("Of course we brought breathing masks"), or to make things harder for an NPC.

The GM instead has a Threat pool, which works similarly to Momentum. They can gain Treat in the same ways the PCs gain Momentum (exceptional success), but also when PCs screw up (every 20 rolled on a check gives the GM the opportunity to create a Complication, but if they don't have a good idea for what that would be they can instead take two Threat) or take risks (most of the things PCs can do with Momentum, they can also do by giving the GM Threat). The GM also gains Threat when various things raise the stakes, such as PCs making lethal attacks. Threat can be spent in more-or-less the same ways as Momentum, but also to do things like bring in reinforcements.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I liked momentum and how it encouraged teamwork. I also really like the initiative system. I liked it enough to port it over to D&D.

You roll initiative for each side at the start of the round. Whoever wins, they decide which of their characters goes first. Then the other side goes, picking who on their side they’d like to act. You alternate sides until everyone on each side has gone, and then the round ends.

This allows for some real coordination of efforts and is another element that promotes teamwork.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fantasy Flight's Star Wars used the same initiative system I believe.

 

[Staffan]

Fantasy Flight's Star Wars used the same initiative system I believe.

Not quite. In Star Wars, each combatant rolls initiative to create an "initiative slot" for their side, but the slot can then be used either by themselves or by their allies.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not quite. In Star Wars, each combatant rolls initiative to create an "initiative slot" for their side, but the slot can then be used either by themselves or by their allies.

The effect seems largely the same, however, and it would seem to serve the same goal.

 

[Staffan]

The effect seems largely the same, however, and it would seem to serve the same goal.

Well, STA has initiative alternating between sides. In Star Wars, it's very possible to get three PCs going in a row, then two enemies, then the last PC, and finally the last three enemies.

Basically, STA is tennis where the sides keep hitting the ball back and forth, while SW is more like volleyball where there's a team on each side that pass the ball to one another before knocking it over to the other side.

 

[Campbell]

I will have some more thoughts later, but if you have played Classic Deadlands the Heat/Momentum economy should feel pretty similar to poker chips except with no ability to spend them for experience. We were kind of amazed when we went back to play Deadlands last year how much it felt like Infinity.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I have it and plan to run it for my group at some point. My problem is one of my players always plays the CN type in whatever we play. Even when she tries to be good I have to rein her in. So playing someone essentially in the military seems impossible.

She also really wants to play a Jedi in a Star Wars game but everyone agrees that despite her promises she'd go Dark Side within a session or 2.

 

[Reynard]

I found 2d20 to be a surprisingly good fit for Star Trek, even though I was dubious at first. And I love the Threat-Momentum mechanic so much I have scavenged it for other games (I do Character points in SWd6 and bennies in Savage Worlds as variants of Threat-Momentum, for example).

I have only run a couple one shots of STA, though, so I don't know how well it holds up over long term play. Nor did those one shots include any ship combat, so I can't talk about that. I keep meaning to get back to STA and run a short (6-8 sessions) campaign to get a real feel for it. Maybe after Picard S3 is over I'll do that and set it in whatever the new status quo is.

 

[aramis erak]

Let me start by saying that, while I have played TTRPGs pretty much continuously since the Metzer box, almost of all of my experience has been with so-called "traditional games". I have played every version of D&D, but also Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, Deadlands, L5R, 7th Sea, TSR Marvel, and more recently several D&D-derived 3pp systems (of which Level Up is my favorite for play).

All of that being said, I have very little experience with any more narrative system, any game that makes extensive use of metacurrency as it is commonly defined, or any game where player agency at the table extends beyond the PC. The few times I have tried such a game, I immediately balked.

In an attempt to ease myself into such games, I have decided to start a campaign with Mophidius' Star Trek Adventures. While I am told that the game is still trad in a lot of ways, I figured that and my love for the subject matter would make the whole process easier for me.

What I am looking for from this thread is any insight into STA (and potentially other 2d20 games) that can help me understand what the game is like in play and what I can expect. Personal experience, as a GM or a player, is great. Links are ok, but if it's to a video I likely will not watch it (I don't watch gaming videos, or YouTube in general much as a rule).

Thanks in advance. What I'm hoping to accomplish here is increase my understanding of other kinds of gaming outside of the traditional model, but not so far outside that I know I'll mentally reject it.

1. Spend your threat liberally; encourage PCs to spend momentum. It's probably the biggest hurdle.
   1. One particularly ugly session, I'd been spending threat, but not as fast as they generated it. They were disappointed to realize I had 15 unspent threat at end of mission, even tho' they succeeded. 3/4 of the ship off limits, half the crew dead, and they solved the case...
   2. Another session, they breezed through and I didn't spend much threat, so had a pile... this one was way more demoralizing...
2. Don't change the threat rating unless things are dire and getting worse - it can lead to a threat snowball
3. every trait can be used for +1, -1, to prohibit some action, or to enable some action; these are not exclusive nor even per turn.
   1. If it makes sense it would help, it reduces TN by 1
   2. If it would hinder, but not prohibit nor severely curtail, it subtracts adds 1 to your TN
   3. If it would make something unreasonably difficult, it prohibits
   4. If you can't normally do something. but the thing makes it look like it should be doable, allow it.
   5. Values are traits too! Just ones that let destiny be spent.
   6. NPCs can be represented as a trait in some cases. If all they are doing is providing needed bodies, the PC leading treats them as traits for a -1 TN...
4. It's not a sim of the characters, its a sym of the show style.
5. Advancement is PAINFULLY slow.

 

[Micah Sweet]

1. Spend your threat liberally; encourage PCs to spend momentum. It's probably the biggest hurdle.
   1. One particularly ugly session, I'd been spending threat, but not as fast as they generated it. They were disappointed to realize I had 15 unspent threat at end of mission, even tho' they succeeded. 3/4 of the ship off limits, half the crew dead, and they solved the case...
   2. Another session, they breezed through and I didn't spend much threat, so had a pile... this one was way more demoralizing...
2. Don't change the threat rating unless things are dire and getting worse - it can lead to a threat snowball
3. every trait can be used for +1, -1, to prohibit some action, or to enable some action; these are not exclusive nor even per turn.
   1. If it makes sense it would help, it reduces TN by 1
   2. If it would hinder, but not prohibit nor severely curtail, it subtracts adds 1 to your TN
   3. If it would make something unreasonably difficult, it prohibits
   4. If you can't normally do something. but the thing makes it look like it should be doable, allow it.
   5. Values are traits too! Just ones that let destiny be spent.
   6. NPCs can be represented as a trait in some cases. If all they are doing is providing needed bodies, the PC leading treats them as traits for a -1 TN...
4. It's not a sim of the characters, its a sym of the show style.
5. Advancement is PAINFULLY slow.

This is very helpful, thank you.

 

[aramis erak]

The effect seems largely the same, however, and it would seem to serve the same goal.

In practice, they aren't even close.
First off, most 2d20 games, and STA in particular, do not have initiative rolls. STA, initiative starts with the PCs unless the GM throws threat at it.

At the start of a Conflict, the Gamemaster determines a single character to take the first Turn. This is determined in the following way:

• Unless there are any reasons for an NPC to take the first Turn, the Gamemaster chooses a single Player Character to start the combat. This may be obvious, based on events that occurred prior to the start of combat, but if there is any uncertainty (such as multiple characters who could all justifiably act first), select the Player Character with the highest Daring to take the first Turn.
• If the NPCs have an obvious reason to start the combat, then the Gamemaster should select one of those NPCs to take the first Turn. This should only be done if there is clear justification for that NPC to act first.
• If there is doubt as to who should act first, the GM may spend one Threat to allow an NPC to take the first Turn, instead of choosing a Player Character.

Star Wars does. The slots are fixed to a side, but generated individually. When a PC drops, one PC slot goes away.

Secondly, 2d20 initiative is always A-then-B-then (repeat until only one side remains)
Star Wars can wind up with AAAAAAA BBBBBB. I have, in fact, had it happen.

STA initiatives are much more consistent, and players tend to switch order for tactical advantage