Looking to make a Rogue "Archer" type of character, need help...

[christm]

4 Levels of figter is required if you are planning on going for OOBI, since it does require that you be specialized in your bow of choice, and specilization requires you to be a 4th level fighter. I would recommend that you take 3-4 levels of rogue first, partially to get the added skills, and partially to be able to afford a mighty composite longbow or regular composite longbow to focus and specialize in, since they are rather expensive. You will be kicking yourself in the behind if you weapon focus in shortbow and then later be forced to specialize in it or waste a feat, since the composite bow is the way to go at higher levels. (At least until you get feats that increase your range and allow you to shoot any thing you can see.)

Other than that, OOBI is the way to go. We are playing in an Epic campain with characters in the party being around 28th level, and taking OOBI to level 10 gets you all but one of the epic feats needed to start the epic level of that prestige class. (All that cannot be substituted for the class skills of the OOBI is the swarm of arrows epic feat)

Some things to keep in mind for developing an archer are..

Put ranks in the tumble skill, it will help you get the hell out of combat when the fighter you just sneak attacked charges you, or tumble past somebody that your companion is fighting so you can pop up behind them and flank attack them. At higher levels you will have access to feats that allow you to shoot a bow at combatants right next to you and not draw attacks of oppertunity, but it is still nice to be able to tumble away away if you are surrounded by hostiles..

Invest in light armor, rings/bracers that add armor, and cloaks of displacement. Your primary strength at lower levels will finding a high, hard to reach place NEAR combat, but not IN combat, and keeping your armor check penalty low will help you jump, climb, and balance your way to the prime sniping spots in addition to allowing you to tumble out if your spot gets over taken. It might cause some tension with the party mage as you two fight over magic rings, but just taking his cast offs should be ok, since you will probably have a much higher dex any way.

And finally.. When you get a chance buy specialty arrows and bows. A bow with "Heart Seeking" on it will be helpful for increasing your crit range, since bows cannot be "Keen". A bow with "Speed" for a modifier will give you an extra flank attack and be worth it's hefty price. And if you are good aligned then adding "Holy" to the bow will help even things out when fighting undead that are imune to crits and flank attacks all together.

As for arrows.. Buy lots of healing arrows. LOTS.. Or make sure that your party cleric can imbue Arms and Armor with magic. An archer with a cure arrow can easily stabilize two or three people in a round that have been knocked down below 0 hitpoints, where a cleric in chainmail running around the battlefield might get to one or two before the rest bleed out, and probably take a few attacks of oppertunity in the proccess. Healing arrows would be nearly as advantagious to a party as a cleric with the "Ranged Touch" feat, while keeping the party cleric free to flamestrike things or mix in up in battle.

Additionally, cure critical wounds arrows will give you plenty of added combat effectiveness when dealing with undead that would normally charm/drain/or incapacitate you if you were to enter melee combat with them. Plugging 3-4 4d8+4 healing arrows into a banshee before she can wail is a hell of a way to start combat, and ensure that your party stands a good chance of walking away intact. The MOTW book lists the healing arrows starting at around 50 GP for a cure light, and going up to 2k for the cure serious, but any price is relatively cheap compared with having to raise people or restore multiple drained levels to every one in the party.

Another type of arrow you might want to try to get ahold of is an arrow enchanted with a rust effect, like rusting grasp. These puppies will make short work of golems, constructs, metal doors, or cursed equipment that is turning your partiy fighter into a berserk PC killing machine. A bow enchanted with this would be great, but you would tend to piss off the party fighter when you destroy the +5 full plate that he has called dibs on when you flank attack the bad guy currently wearing it, so a few arrows kept for emergencys would probably be best. (Actually in the campain I am playing in now I would give my eye teeth for a quiver of these since golems seem to be a dime a dozen, but since we were sucked into Ravenloft I doubt there will be any place I can pick some up.)

 

[Rackhir]

And finally.. When you get a chance buy specialty arrows and bows. A bow with "Heart Seeking" on it will be helpful for increasing your crit range, since bows cannot be "Keen".

Your post had a lot of great advice and suggestions for an archer. I had never really though much about the healing arrows, but you made some excellent suggestions for employing them.

The one point I would dispute was the "heart seeking" ability for the bow. One level of DWS can get you that, leaving you with another + you can use for something else on the bow. Also it does get you an increased crit range IIRC.

 

[Thanee]

And finally.. When you get a chance buy specialty arrows and bows. A bow with "Heart Seeking" on it will be helpful for increasing your crit range, since bows cannot be "Keen". A bow with "Speed" for a modifier will give you an extra flank attack and be worth it's hefty price. And if you are good aligned then adding "Holy" to the bow will help even things out when fighting undead that are imune to crits and flank attacks all together.

I think a caster (namely my recommended Arcane Trickster) has a huge benefit here (not to mention, that he'll be a real rogue, not just a fighter disguised as one with a single (or so) rogue level ), as he can cover a lot of these effects with his spells (Keen Edge, Haste, etc).

Greater Magic Weapon alone is a huge benefit!

Remember, that this will be a party comprised entirely of rogues!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Gaiden]

Arcane Tricksters do make great rogue/CASTERS. They are definitely not rogue archers though. Their BAB will SUCK. Granted, you will get magic to counteract this. However, as far as I understand the concept to go, it would detract from the archer idea to go that route because you have to get at least 5 levels of wizard in the process. That means less feats and low BAB for all of those levels.

IMHO, adding in levels of fighter to get to any one of the archer PrC's is fine and can still mesh perfectly well with the concept of a rogue like archer. I think OotBI comes closest to a PrC for a roguish archer regardless of whether or not it is the best PrC for Archers. And you can get there by going Fighter 4, Rogue 4. Moreover, even if the OotBI does not have the skills a rogue does, you can add in a level of Shadow Dancer (especially good if you are going for shot on the run with manyshot) and counteract 1 or 2 lowers skills as well as get the very nice HiPS ability.

If your party is composed entirely of rogues, it is certainly a good suggestion for at least one of them to become an arcane trickster. I would recommend that they focus more on magic though. To do so check out



for an arcane trickster with 9th level casting. And if you don't like the assassin, switch in a level of guild thief (since you can use FRCS).

Finally, have one of the rogues multiclass with cleric to get the healing and turning ability. FRCS has a PrC that would be good for that concept as well (I forget the name). christm makes an incredible suggestion with the healing arrows.

I remember a 2e campaign I was in where everyone was a multiclassed rogue. A couple of things to think about that I learned from that is to make sure you still have the normal versatility a standard party has. This definitely requires multiclassing. I don't know how many players your group has but if the group already has the archer archetype, definitely get the mage archetype (as suggested with arcane trickster), and also consider the fighter and cleric archetypes. Off hand I don't have any great suggestions for either of these except that mixing cleric and rogue will probably be the most difficult as they have the least overlap of abilities. For the melee rogue you could probaby multiclass just with Ranger and be incredible (as the ranger class gives you the two weapon fighting stuff, some good rogue skills, and good utility spells). However, as with all rogues, their attack power will come from SA so perhaps only take a level or two of ranger and mix with the ninja PrC to continue the SA progression.

Ok, I am rambling . Point - plan with the other members of the party to figure out which archetype each wants to play so that you can get your bases covered. Also converse about skills selection. Not everyone has to be good at disable device but probably everyone will want Use Magic Device. Not everyone has to be good at Direction Sense, but Everyone is going to want Hide, Move Silently, Spot, and Listen. Not everyone is going to have to be good at pick pockets or open locks or diplomacy, but probably everyone will want a good bluff score, etc.

Finally consider which tactics you will use ahead of time. This party of multiclassed 2e rogues I played with was on Darksun. We had a rogue psionicist who linked everyone's mind when we were making an attack for instant telepathic communication. Basically we got to all be at different sections of an area and do things coordinated/simultaneously without even needing to see each other - was incredibly powerful. I think psions can still do this and perhaps to a lesser degree arcane and divine casters.

 

[Shadow64]

I'd look at some of the archer feats from AEG's Mercenaries. They have some good ones to increase your sneak attack range (first from 30ft. to 60ft., then later 60ft. to 90ft.) as well as changing your sneak attack dice (from d6 to d8, then later to a d10). PLUS they have others that allow you to add your dex bonus to a single attack if the target is within 30’, one that allows an instant crit (if you hit with the attack) if you sacrifice your second attack (and if you have four attacks you give up the second and forth attacks to do the insta-crit with the first and third attack, IF you hit.)

I'd probably start the char off as a rogue, switch to fighter at 4th level and go till 9th level with the fighter (use the fighter levels to load up on feats), then go back to rogue for the rest of your levels.

EDIT: Had to remove some stuff because I couldn't find my rog/fighter feat progression i came up with last night. Only the scout/fighter feat progression. oops.