Lord or Tyrant?

[Zurai]

Disturbing though that sentiment may be, there were no peasants in this story.

Militia are, by definition, peasants. Militia are commoners given minimal formation and weapon training, only called upon in times of war or disaster. They do not own any weapons or armor (and in fact would probably be killed if they were found to possess any weapons). All of their gear is provided for them by their liege lord, and they only have access to it while they are training or called to service. They are not soldiers by trade; they are farmers, weavers, herders, sailors, carpenters, smiths.

 

[Elf Witch]

Militia are, by definition, peasants. Militia are commoners given minimal formation and weapon training, only called upon in times of war or disaster. They do not own any weapons or armor (and in fact would probably be killed if they were found to possess any weapons). All of their gear is provided for them by their liege lord, and they only have access to it while they are training or called to service. They are not soldiers by trade; they are farmers, weavers, herders, sailors, carpenters, smiths.

That is true but a lot of players and DM use the word milita to mean men at arms. Not all men at arms are commoners. Some are knights and nobles in their own right.

 

[Zurai]

That is true but a lot of players and DM use the word milita to mean men at arms. Not all men at arms are commoners. Some are knights and nobles in their own right.

Somehow I suspect this entire situation would have been avoided if the militia in question were anything other than peasants. Assuming that the DM is misusing the term when all outward appearances show otherwise is rather silly.

 

[Elf Witch]

If following orders was so important, why did they subsequently abandon the defense of the keep, and opted for hiding in the basements?

I wonder what would've happened if the PCs were defending the keep, and the original lords return .. in wind walk form. I guess it would be okay to wail on them, just to make sure, because they could be vampires.

BTW, in real life, most soldiers are really devastated by friendly fire incidents they've caused and are really remorseful. The first reaction isn't to yell back at the stupidity of their comrades if they're angry at being shot at. Even if it was on orders (there are some videos on this on youtube).

The DM has said that he has not decided if the guards will continue hiding in the basements so they may come back up once they have licked their wounds.


I would say that if this if the keep's lords returned this way and the PCs fired on them then the PCs would be in the right. You don't take chances with powerful undead.

I am going to disagree with you about friendly fire. Because not everyone responds the same way. My father was involved in a friendly fire incident in WW2 and he handled it by getting angry at the people who were killed because of their stupidity. He was guilt ridden and his way of dealing with guilt was by getting angry.

I would also like to point out that the since the cleric didn't die it is a little different case. I can see someone getting angry because of fear. As everyone has pointed out they fired on an ally and high ranking one at that. Some people when a mistake is made even one that is by accident will often get angry. It is a natural reaction. I used to work in the NICU and on bad days when we had babies dying and to many admissions nerves would get frayed and people often went off at each other. Stress can make even the calmest person act a little crazy.

And that is what I think happened. I don't think that this is about surly commoners and over haughty nobles I think this is about people in a tense dombat situation letting the stress get to them.

 

[Madefromletters]

The DM has said that he has not decided if the guards will continue hiding in the basements so they may come back up once they have licked their wounds.

They are only hiding there in the night time as they have already lost there captain a couple of other guards and one of the other 10th level lords to night attacks from vampires.

The guards are more than peaseants with pitch forks. they are fitted out into uniforms and they are the law. i made the archers and captain +5 level. they really have no bearing on the CR ratings so have 5 ranks in all skills, +1 to each stat and +5 to attack and +1 damage.
Peseants are only +1 and -1 damage in my off the cuff book.

The situation as i said was about fear and confusion. they fired once (maybe twice, like it makes a big differance cause it happens pretty quick) and when they were going to fire again cause they had no convincing arguement to prove the flying priest was anything but something to kill them the guards got an earful from a preistess that hadnt even bothered to find out what the situation was. She saw firing and decided that the guards were all idiots so of course they were pissed off. She shouted and got shouted down. their is no mention of the captain insulting her. He may have said the like of "you stupid biatch we are doing our job, the last thing we need is some outsiders coming in and telling us to just piss off and go inside the keep and keep out of the way".

The guards have been through 6 months of this death and destruction and as far as deference goes i don't believe the PCs have any when it comes to the common man on the street.
First: yes they destroyed minions nearby 2 years ago but this is greyhawk and that is common place.
Second: The PCs destroyed a nearby town which is no more. The town wasnt evil or a home of the enemy just in the way and easier for the PCs to destroy than to help out and make friendly towards. i was a PC then along with the others involved in the recent events but my PC would so do that and has no interest in hiding the fact that he rules by force himself. He is a tyrant and kills gnomes for fun as his people sees them as animals
Third: Yes they have attacked evil nearby but that area has no effect on the guards area of influence
Forth: The PC Maugrim does have a keep nearby that has been lost and retaken in the last six months by others that arnt the PC.
Fiveth: The PCs were meant to turn up to their lords knighting (the one that became a vampire about a month later) six months ago but failed to show and then disappeared for six months and came back out of the blue about 1 week ago saying they have no idea what actually happened to them. (sounds like a tall story to me and i DMed it)
for the record they were kidnapped during a teleport that was intercepted by beings that reside in a nexus plan of the four elements (it was a way to get rid of a PC that has gone away for a few months and there PC is still on that plane)

My last point is that i dont live in the D&D world or a medieval time so i try to look at things like deference in modern terms cause i failed to do a phd in either subject.
I have recently met alot of politicians, mayors, councilors and the like in the last year.
1 - The PCs can in no way be related to politicians. deference high
2 - The PCs do have a controlling interest in divided lands nearby that others already have a claim too so can't be in the realm of a mayor. deference low unless a major city
3 - So im thinking cause they have very little power and what they say means nothing to anyone they are on a par with councilors. deference nil I know most people forget to vote at that time and have no idea who they are unless it is some sort of official meeting or event.

The PCs are playing power they think they have not what they have. They have done many things but have not consolidated or campaigned on any of it.

 

[Zurai]

The guards are more than peaseants with pitch forks. they are fitted out into uniforms and they are the law. i made the archers and captain +5 level. they really have no bearing on the CR ratings so have 5 ranks in all skills, +1 to each stat and +5 to attack and +1 damage.
Peseants are only +1 and -1 damage in my off the cuff book.

If they were peasants with pitchforks, they wouldn't be militia, they'd be a mob. Militias were generally equipped with cheap but serviceable weapons that were easy to train with. Spears, usually, and crossbows for ranged weapons. Before crossbows they'd have shortbows, or longbows in rare cases (mainly certain areas of England). They would also have some sort of uniform, although the extent of it depended on the wealth of their liege lord. Could be anywhere from a more-or-less matching set of clothes to actual boiled leather armor with a surcoat. Since even the poorest D&D fiefs tend to be on the rich side compared to real life, armor and surcoats would be pretty much expected.

My last point is that i dont live in the D&D world or a medieval time so i try to look at things like deference in modern terms cause i failed to do a phd in either subject.

You don't have to have a PHD to simulate a medieval society. Situations like this were really, really simple: You never, ever talk back to someone of a higher station than you unless you had the direct backing of your own lord (preferably your lord is higher station than the guy you're harrassing). Period. Militia are cheap and easy to replace. Making an enemy of a lord because one of your servants was rude and confrontational to him when he is a known ally of your cause can cause literally a lifetime of trouble. Unless the lower-class individual was extremely valuable to the lord, he'd be beaten and dismissed from service immediately.

 

[Fenes]

He may have said the like of "you stupid biatch we are doing our job, the last thing we need is some outsiders coming in and telling us to just piss off and go inside the keep and keep out of the way".

Calling a cleric a B*** is a grave insult. That alone is enough for a duel in my honest opinion.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

We've been circulating emails, and I'm very confident this will work out just fine. Just an issue of reading from the same page as it turns out.

Thanks Haarkon1 and Wizardru for a couple of perceptive posts. ;-)

You won't get any more spoilers from me about RttToEE, other than to say, the campaign can be very flexible if people so wish.

Good night all

 

[Madefromletters]

Do some people not understand exaggeration or hyperbol at all?

i failed to do a phd in either subject.

You don't have to have a PHD to simulate a medieval society.

I suppose i must be stuck in this whole mind set that people dont take foundly to being man handled or insulted no matter what their station in life. It is called being a human/orc/elf etc (im assuming for demi humans). If i did something wrong (that actually didnt matter in the end anyway) but it seemed to be the right thing to do at the time and the pope said to me "you a stupid little bastard and the devil he will eat your soul" i would tell him where to go and ask if the authour of the bible actually wrote any other fictional works but if the pope said "your actions wernt correct cause you let your emotions cloud your decision" then i would think that the pope is truely a wise and great person and im going to go to church on sunday instead of playing a make believe game and that he is not a complete power hungry tyrant wanna be.

Calling a cleric a B*** is a grave insult. That alone is enough for a duel in my honest opinion.

It was justified to say such a thing in my opinion and she should never have let it get to that point. She has underminded her status and the people will eventually hear of it via drunken tavern tales when or if the town reforms.

In my limited olden day knowledge i would think that a lords followers are an extension of the lord so what happens to ones followers effects the lord.

So an unhappy lord has now been placed in a position to show strength against the PCs who have set up a keep a days ride away and who have now also threated his followers. Does he show force be expelling his old and respected guards for doing what they are told to cover up his clear mistake of trusting the PCs not to mess with the system while he tried to save the land via another way. Whatever happens the seeds mistrust have been planted.

 

[Fenes]

In my campaign, people simply do not call any woman of higher station "b***", not without grave and often deadly consequences. There is no justification for such a breech of ettiquette, and it's what starts bloodfeuds.

But then, I play in a feudal fantasy world, styled after our history, where commoners have less rights, and nobles defend their honor with weapons. Not everyone wants to play in such campaigns.

I do hope though that you also let PCs insult other powerful nobles without consequences, if they have the same justification as you grant the militia. If a militia member can call a cleric "b***" if she scolds them without cause, then PCs should be able to call the princess of the neighbouring realm "B***" if she scolds them without reason, and not suffer for it, but see the princess' rep go down as a reaction.