Loremaster Secret selection

[bret]

I'm playing a Wizard 11 who is about to pick up their first level of Loremaster. I'm curious what people think the best Loremaster secret is. I can take any of them from 1-8.

Currently, I'm seriously considering taking Applicable Knowledge for the feat. Take either Silent Spell or Greater Spell Penetration. The other candidate is Dodge Trick for the AC boost, but I've got pretty good fighter cover.

Feats at 12th level will be:
Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand, Craft Magic Armors & Armor, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Penetration, Skill Focus: Knowledge (The Planes)

The campaign is high combat and we will not have time for item creation. Getting enough time to cast Identify is tricky right now. Currently we are fighting a lot of giants, including several giant clerics. From information in the campaign, in the near future we anticipate having to deal a lot with Dragons, Undead, and Drow. Most likely this will include at least a couple of Undead Dragons or Undead Drow.

I'm leaning heavily towards Silent Spell right now. In addition to the Silent Dispel Magic I would then carry, I could go invisible and silently summon monsters.

 

[mikebr99]

You're right... the new feat is probably your best choice. But here are some others to consider:

The reflex or fort save bonus is always helpful.

An AC boost is good... dodge bonuses stack with everything.

Depending on how your DM handles tumble... taking the 4 ranks in it could get you out of a sticky situation... assuming you don't already have it.

Mike

 

[bret]

AC: My current AC is 21, 25 after Mage Armor. Combination of an excellent Dex, Natural Armor, and a Ring of Protection. If the GM ever lets me find Bracers of Armor this should go higher. Given the opponents and level we are at, I'm thinking the +1 AC just isn't going to matter that much. So far, the fighters have done an excellent job of preventing any opponents from getting into melee with me.

Tumble: Since I've got Dimension Door and have good fighter cover, I'm hoping to avoid getting into situations where I would have to tumble out. The other thing is I wanted to save this secret for just before the campaign closes, get some Diplomacy or Sense Motive. The character comes from a ruling family, it would be in character (but useless in the current situation) to have some of this skill.

Saves: I had thought about increasing my Fortitude save. So far, I don't think anyone in the whole group has had to make a Fort save but I anticipate this changing. Drow tend to use poison, which means we should have to deal with these quite a bit in the future.


So I guess it is now a choice of three instead of two items:

• Lore of True Stamina: +1 Fort Saves
• Applicable Knowledge: Silent Spell
• Applicable Knowledge: Greater Spell Penetration

Since no one in the group has Silent Spell, I'm leaning that way.

 

[Storm Raven]

So I guess it is now a choice of three instead of two items:

• Lore of True Stamina: +1 Fort Saves
• Applicable Knowledge: Silent Spell
• Applicable Knowledge: Greater Spell Penetration

Since no one in the group has Silent Spell, I'm leaning that way.

The basic rule of thumb on the Loremaster secrets list is that the higher they are on the list, the more valuble they are. I'd suggest taking one of the feats. The Fortitude save bonuse can be replaced with a relatively cheap magic item that will provide other benefits as well (a +2 Amulet of Health). The feats cannot really be replicated any way other than to take them as feats (or really expensive things like metamagic rods).

 

[Pax]

I'm playing a Wizard 11 who is about to pick up their first level of Loremaster. I'm curious what people think the best Loremaster secret is. I can take any of them from 1-8.

Well you could be "cute" and pick up 4 ranks of ANY skill -- yes, even exclusive skills!. LEarn the Druidic secret language (my "NecroSage" -- Wizard(Necromancy) / Loremaster -- did just that). Get Animal Empathy. That sort of thing.

Or just go for Applicable Knowledge and grab another feat.

 

[Li Shenron]

Just to know... if you can't select a secret twice, how does it work for the Epic Loremaster?

 

[Number47]

Well, if you're going to be 12th level, take Silent Spell and a secret for Greater Penetration. You get both.

 

[Gaiden]

TAKE THE FEAT!

Having constructed several wizards with Loremaster levels, the feat is always the most desirable secret simply because of the limited number a wizard gets. Silent spell is a great metamagic feat especially for when you are invisible. Also, it is a great feat for use with silence spells as you can silence your self and move close to other spellcasters and still cast. The thing is, almost every spell in the game has a verbal component, being able to control that element of spellcasting is tremendously useful - especially against clerics.

However, given your current feat choice I would think another feat would immediately jump to the forefront as the most desirable feat for you: namely, persistant spell. You have extend spell and for a wizard, having persistant detect magic, resistance, shield, expeditious retreat, protection from evil, protection from arrows, see invisibility, etc. is simply too good to pass up. Not to mention at level 13 you will gain access to persistant haste and blink and at level 15 gain access to persistant improved invisibility.

BTW - you mentioned your high AC. I am surprised you did not include anything about armor bonuses or shield bonuses. Do you not have access to bracers of armor, magic vestments, and/or mithril shields? I am assuming you use polymorph to gain a natural armor (and if you are not, you ought to) and have cat's grace to boost your dex (both of which can be extended for a full day's worth of adventuring and pretty soon will last longer than a day netting you extra spells over time). Also, you can empower the cat's grace to really boost your dex. The reason why I bring this up is that at mid levels an AC for a wizard below 30 is abominatably low. In the campaigns I play in or DM, your mage would have an exceedingly short life span. I mean no insult or slight, I am just speaking from experience. Also, having DMed drow before and DRAGONS! you really won't live that long. Actually, with dragons it is a moot issue - if they are played right, and if it is true that your fortitude save is as low as I believe, you don't stand a chance. With such a low AC were most people who focus on attack bonuses will have an average of somewhere in the neighbor hood of +20 - +25 to hit, your AC is meaningless.

Overall, silent spell and invisibility will go a lot farther than would 4 ranks in tumble. Your goal, with your AC and mage hps is to avoid combat and the best way to do that is to be unknown. In fact if you can have an invisibility sphere and summon your creatures into it so that no one knows they are there until you have summoned everything, it would be even better. What better than to have 15 or so lantern archons suddenly appear as you let loose a disintegrate on the most powerful caster present? (Yes I know that things could be a lot better, work with me ).

As Number 47 pointed out, you get two feats at level 12 if you take the feat secret. I would recommend taking persistant and silent spell feats and save greater spell penetration until level 15 when the baddies have SR that high.

Another btw - you mentioned something about not having time to identify - was this in reference to the loremaster ability to identify with a standard action?

 

[bret]

To Gaiden:

Thanks for the response. I'll try and quickly let you know why I've said some of the things I have.

Re: Persistent Spell

I've already got a permanent See Invisible, have since 10th level. This would also work for Protection from Arrows and Detect Magic. My reading of the feat (range must be personal or fixed) is that it would not work for Protection from Evil (touch), Haste (range close), or improved invisibility (touch).

Basically, all I would use it for is Persistent Shield or maybe Persistent Expedious Retreat. Nice, but at this time I did not feel it worth giving up a 5th level spell. I've got a cloak of Resistence so even the Persistent Resistence isn't interesting.

Better to burn a couple thousand XP than a feat at this point.


AC: 10 + 5 (deflection) +4 (dex) + 2 (natural armor: amulet) +4 (armor when Mage Armor active)

I agree that it isn't high. What I said is that 1 point of AC isn't going to make enough difference in what hits me to be worth it.

Shields (the item, not the spell) have Arcane Failure chances unless Mithril and don't stack with Mage Armor. I don't tend to walk around polymorphed. The Cat's Grace spells that I cast go towards the archers rather than myself. As I said, I've got good fighter cover so melee is not generally my problem.


Identify: The campaign is on a tight timeline, the faster we can finish the next section the better off we will be. That is why we can't afford a day (8 hours) to identify items. It also prevents me from scribing scrolls or other magical upgrades.


Re: 12th level feat:

The GM is being nice and allowing me to pick up Skill Focus: Knowledge (prerequisite for Loremaster) and start the class at the same time. Thus, my normal 12th level feat is burned by this. By the normal rules, I would normally have had to wait until 13th level to enter the class.


Everyone:

Thanks for the comments. They have all been good.

 

[bret]

Just to know... if you can't select a secret twice, how does it work for the Epic Loremaster?

I believe you have your choice of picking an Epic feat or any Loremaster Secret you haven't gotten yet.