Does anyone else find it odd that Decipher Script is on that list? Forgery is a little suspect, too.
Losing an Eye
- Thread starter BV210
- Start date
Prophet2b
First Post
Actually, I don't think it should really affect anything buy Search, Spot and ranged attacks; maybe Spellcraft (though this one I'm not really sure about at all), Survival (tracking), and reflex saving throws.
But why on earth does it affect Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Sense Motive, initiative, and dexterity? Why?
The person can't see out of one eye. He doesn't suddenly become stupider, less dextrous, or even necessarily less observant (it'll just make it a tad harder to be as observant as you used to be).
King Leonidas: Dilios, I trust that "scratch" hasn't made you useless.
Dilios: Hardly, my lord, it's just an eye. The gods saw fit to grace me with a spare.
But why on earth does it affect Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Sense Motive, initiative, and dexterity? Why?
The person can't see out of one eye. He doesn't suddenly become stupider, less dextrous, or even necessarily less observant (it'll just make it a tad harder to be as observant as you used to be).
King Leonidas: Dilios, I trust that "scratch" hasn't made you useless.
Dilios: Hardly, my lord, it's just an eye. The gods saw fit to grace me with a spare.
ogre
First Post
Allow me to enlighten you all... 
First off, having one eye should never, and I mean never give a penalty to ranged attacks. It should give a -2 penalty to melee attacks.
A common misperception is that depth perception beyond about your arms reach requires 2 eyes. This isn't true. However, having 2 eyes is very relevant for depth perception close up, not far away. This is because up close each eye sees a different picture and your brain can transpose both images and determine depth by their differences. But, as you get farther and farther away, each eye sees basically the same image, hence there is not enough difference between the 2 to transpose the information into depth. At distances about beyond 5-feet or so, whether you have 1 eye or 2 you use the same clues to determine distance and depth. Things don't look flat because you have just one eye. You still see shadows, size difference, objects in front of eachother etc.
As for all those other skills, that's pattenably absurb, except for maybe Spot, in certain circumstances (which may just simply translate into a standard penalty YMMV).
So, you ask, why am I so adamant about this? Yup, you guessed it, I'm a cyclops. I lost an eye when I was 20 years old, about half my life ago, so I've seen both sides. Honestly, I can toss knives, shoot hoops, shoot bows, handguns and rifles (on the other side now though) etc. just as well as I could before. But, close up fighting is more difficult, as well as catching objects thrown to me straight on. They are fine until they get close. I can usually simply side step a little or move my head sideways a tad to get the perspective I need, but I am certainly at a -2 to catch, but certainly not to dodge. As for Search, Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Sense Motive, initiative, tracking and any other skill besides Spot (I can get blind-sided) you're really implying a handicap where there isn't one. (I was a jeweler for many years) As odd as it may seem, my periferal vision is actually much more accute (I can see the tiniest movements out of the corner of my eye and am always spotting critters and such before other people I hike with), but I have a blind spot past my right shoulder.
So, if you want to be realistic, a -2 to melee attacks, Reflex saves and Spot is all you need. You could fine tune it further to also include a -2 to catch objects and remove the penalties to Spot and reflex saves if the attack or hiding creature is not coming from the blind side.
Anyway, I'm rambling. But, you can trust me on this, though it is imho and experience.
Ok, I'll step off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.
First off, having one eye should never, and I mean never give a penalty to ranged attacks. It should give a -2 penalty to melee attacks.
A common misperception is that depth perception beyond about your arms reach requires 2 eyes. This isn't true. However, having 2 eyes is very relevant for depth perception close up, not far away. This is because up close each eye sees a different picture and your brain can transpose both images and determine depth by their differences. But, as you get farther and farther away, each eye sees basically the same image, hence there is not enough difference between the 2 to transpose the information into depth. At distances about beyond 5-feet or so, whether you have 1 eye or 2 you use the same clues to determine distance and depth. Things don't look flat because you have just one eye. You still see shadows, size difference, objects in front of eachother etc.
As for all those other skills, that's pattenably absurb, except for maybe Spot, in certain circumstances (which may just simply translate into a standard penalty YMMV).
So, you ask, why am I so adamant about this? Yup, you guessed it, I'm a cyclops. I lost an eye when I was 20 years old, about half my life ago, so I've seen both sides. Honestly, I can toss knives, shoot hoops, shoot bows, handguns and rifles (on the other side now though) etc. just as well as I could before. But, close up fighting is more difficult, as well as catching objects thrown to me straight on. They are fine until they get close. I can usually simply side step a little or move my head sideways a tad to get the perspective I need, but I am certainly at a -2 to catch, but certainly not to dodge. As for Search, Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Sense Motive, initiative, tracking and any other skill besides Spot (I can get blind-sided) you're really implying a handicap where there isn't one. (I was a jeweler for many years) As odd as it may seem, my periferal vision is actually much more accute (I can see the tiniest movements out of the corner of my eye and am always spotting critters and such before other people I hike with), but I have a blind spot past my right shoulder.
So, if you want to be realistic, a -2 to melee attacks, Reflex saves and Spot is all you need. You could fine tune it further to also include a -2 to catch objects and remove the penalties to Spot and reflex saves if the attack or hiding creature is not coming from the blind side.
Anyway, I'm rambling. But, you can trust me on this, though it is imho and experience.
Ok, I'll step off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.
Prophet2b
First Post
Thanks for that commentary, ogre! Actually, while I've never known someone who only had one eye, I kind of assumed that was the case for one reason - my wife only has one arm, and people are always assuming that hinders her in ways that we would never even think about. In fact, she absolutely refuses to take advantage of any "disability" programs or anything like that, because she's not disabled. I thought for a while that she was just stubborn - but after spending so much time with her, I can certainly see now that she was right!
So I had this feeling that the same thing was going on with the whole losing an eye scenario. They were assuming disabilities that aren't actually there, just because to us it "makes sense" that it would be so. Just like it "made sense" to someone once that I must have to tie my wife's shoes (she'd hit me if I even offered!) and do other such things.
Thanks, again!
So I had this feeling that the same thing was going on with the whole losing an eye scenario. They were assuming disabilities that aren't actually there, just because to us it "makes sense" that it would be so. Just like it "made sense" to someone once that I must have to tie my wife's shoes (she'd hit me if I even offered!) and do other such things.
Thanks, again!
ogre
First Post
My pleasure Prophet2b. I'm always willing to jump in and quell the noise of the old "-2 to ranged attacks" thing with one eye. *shakes his fist at Gary Gygax for putting that in the cyclops entry of D&D 1E*
Thanks for sharing your experiences with one arm, now that surprises me, so yeah, I learned something too.
Oh and the 300 quote! Brilliant! I actually cheered loudly in theater when he said this!
Last edited:
Wow, Ogre, I appreciate the information. I had always wondered about the depth perception thing as every firearm I've ever been trained on they tell you to close one eye to aim.
I do have a question though. How long did it take after you lost your eye for your brain to "compensate," as it were? I can see having the more severe game penalties for a relatively recent injury and then as the character learns to cope, these start to drop off, ending in the -2 to Spot and melee attacks. Based on your experiene, what kind of time frame would that be?
I do have a question though. How long did it take after you lost your eye for your brain to "compensate," as it were? I can see having the more severe game penalties for a relatively recent injury and then as the character learns to cope, these start to drop off, ending in the -2 to Spot and melee attacks. Based on your experiene, what kind of time frame would that be?
ogre
First Post
My experience? It took a while. Getting used to how to 'see' depth up close, you have to learn to look for different clues, at first conciously then it becomes subconcious. For instance, the simple task of stepping off a street curb was at first disorienting, but after adjusting to moving my head slideways a little, I could see it's depth and walk along normally. Anyway, to answer your question in game terms, I'd say at first, a -4 penalty to melee would be in order, and if you trained and worked at it, maybe a month to lower it to a -2, which I would say would be the best you could do. I can still get lazy and reach for a beer and misfire, smacking the bottle, thinking it was farther away than it really is. And mock fighting with soft swords has been a real adventure, I'm still pretty good at it, but I can occasionally hit too hard or miss altogether in the heat of battle
.So all in all, I'd say if you were dillagent and worked at it, one month to compensate consiously and learn the 'tricks', probably a year or two before it becomes second nature. My (at least percieved by me anyway lol) improved perifial vision took years to come about.
Though, like Darklone said, I wouldn't necessarily restrict heroic characters from being able to overcome all penalties if they trained hard enough and the DM approves. I have never trained, at least in sword fighting, but amazingly enough, I can still play ping pong, softball and volley ball just as well as before (after adjusting of course), but I do occasionaly make 'swish' attacks, completely missing. But then again, I don't really practice.
I completely agree with this assesment. I think the only reasoning to imply a -2 penalty would be to incorporate an overall penalty to take into account the 'blind spot'. But your right, it really boils down to how much you are looking around and remain actively aware. In my experience, if I am being alert, I can spot things without any handicap, but... if I'm being lazy or non-attentive, I can walk past a counter and bang into the corner or knock something or run into someone, coming up on my blind spot. So yeah, its all about situational awareness. The cyclops just needs to be more proactive about it.
Ogre,
I appreciate your input and candor. I like your recommendations of the -4 and then eventually ending at -2. Makes perfect sense to me.
Raspen,
While I understand your point, in my mind Spot is more of a "notice out of the corner of your eye while doing something else" skill, while Search is more along the lines of "stop and focus on an area."
Bottom line, I think if the trap takes the rogue's eye, they'll start with a -4 penalty to everything listed on page 27 of the 3.5 DMG (and including melee attacks) with it evolving to a -2 penalty to Spot and melee attacks after at least 2 months. My rationale for dropping the penalty to the other skills is that they tend to be undertaken in a less hurried environment. Spot, as I mentioned above, is more or less spur of the moment.
Thanks to everyone for their input. Now if the rogue will just trigger the trap properly . . .
I appreciate your input and candor. I like your recommendations of the -4 and then eventually ending at -2. Makes perfect sense to me.
Raspen,
While I understand your point, in my mind Spot is more of a "notice out of the corner of your eye while doing something else" skill, while Search is more along the lines of "stop and focus on an area."
Bottom line, I think if the trap takes the rogue's eye, they'll start with a -4 penalty to everything listed on page 27 of the 3.5 DMG (and including melee attacks) with it evolving to a -2 penalty to Spot and melee attacks after at least 2 months. My rationale for dropping the penalty to the other skills is that they tend to be undertaken in a less hurried environment. Spot, as I mentioned above, is more or less spur of the moment.
Thanks to everyone for their input. Now if the rogue will just trigger the trap properly . . .
Similar Threads
