Lost: 11/1/06

[Demmero]

Yeah, that made no sense at all. As a doctor, and knowing his character, Jack would've felt ethically and morally obligated to help if they'd just asked. The question is whether this bogus motive is a sign of:

• The Others' continuing attempt to manipulate Jack with lies; or,
• Terrible writing.

I sure hope it's the first one.

The Others seem to have an agenda with the Losties far bigger than just kidnapping the spinal surgeon to operate on Ben. They wanted to take the Losties' children, born or unborn (Walt and Clair'e baby), they wanted to make sure the Losties are unable to sail far from their island (blowing up the raft and stealing Desmond's boat)...they seem to want to play mind games with the survivors.

Coming right up to the survivors shortly after the plane crash would mean probably having to take other injured people to their medical base, answering questions about why they're on the island in the first place, and perhaps being asked to house and shelter the Losties.

Remember: we saw the Others witnessing the plane crash, and I don't remember any comment like, "Oh my God--they're all gonna be dead!" Instead, we heard Ben calmly sending spies to infiltrate any survivors, and no one else saying a word about helping them instead.

A horrific plane crash, and not one word of compassion for the victims. This is why I really can't buy into the Others as "the good guys." They have secrets they value far above the potential loss of hundreds of lives of people in a plane crash.

So no, I don't think we can cry bad writing yet. I think it's more mind games. And I think those X-rays of Ben's tumor being posted right where Jack could see them reeks of a set-up.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I'm sorry, I didn't make my point as clearly as I intended. My point is that ALL of these characters will be revealed to be AS evil or MORE evil than Eko. What I'm saying is that they lure us into having sympathy with these characters, and then pull the rug out from under us by revealing them to be reprehensible.

I'm with you here. I would be perfectly happy with Sawyer and Kate being offed at this point. Right now only Hurley and Locke hold any interest in me continueing with the show and they are both one flashback away from the writers turning thier characters on thier heads and making me not care about them either. I know evil characters are easier to write but I don't want a show that only has unlikeable characters and that is where this is fast heading.

 

[Taelorn76]

And I think those X-rays of Ben's tumor being posted right where Jack could see them reeks of a set-up.

Could be, but why would they have the exchange between Ben and Juliette on the beach where he asks her why she told Jack they were his X-rays. Jack was not close enough to catch those comments and they would not have that scene in there just for our benifit.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I know Ben said that two days after he was found to have a tumor that a spinal surgen fell from the sky. But I don't think Ben was being literal here. Yeah Jack may have fallen from the sky two days after he found out about the cancer, but it may have taken a few days or weeks to figure out that one the survivors was a spinal surgen.

But a spinal surgeon DID fall from the sky. How more literal can you get? Sure it might have taken them days, even weeks, to research the fact that Jack is a spinal surgeon. But that doesn't negate the fact that he fell from the sky after Benry found out he had a tumor.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Who gets the flash backs next week?

As I stated in Post 22

Yeah. I can't wait for next week. Going to be a Kate flashback, and can't wait to see Nathan Fillion guest star

 

[Demmero]

Could be, but why would they have the exchange between Ben and Juliette on the beach where he asks her why she told Jack they were his X-rays. Jack was not close enough to catch those comments and they would not have that scene in there just for our benifit.

Maybe Ben and/or Juliet are lying/playing mind games with one another as well as with Jack. I agree that Jack couldn't have overheard their talk, but he was able to see their little confrontation and perhaps guess at what it was about.

That seems to be standard operating procedure for the Others: give the Losties just enough information (or misinformation) to make guesses, which usually turn out to be wrong or flawed in some way.

 

[Fast Learner]

I think it would be best to not continue discussing what makes someone bad. I disagree seriously with the bulk of the characterization here, but expressing my opinions would just start a flamewar, I'm sure. I understand you're sort-of talking about how the Others might see them, but when words like "morals" and "ethics" get into it, there's a lot of personal perspective involved.

 

[Taelorn76]

But a spinal surgeon DID fall from the sky. How more literal can you get? Sure it might have taken them days, even weeks, to research the fact that Jack is a spinal surgeon. But that doesn't negate the fact that he fell from the sky after Benry found out he had a tumor.

My response was to a comment made as to why Ben didn't go to the beach after the crash and ask for the spinal surgeon. I probably should not have used the word literal though.

Edit: see 2nd quote below.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Also, what happened to Locke rushing out to rescue Jack? Did he even try?

Going to the Pearl is part of the plan to rescue Jack. They are hoping to get info on the other hatches, or a means of communicating with them or the Others.

One thing that bugs me. If Ben knew that he had a spinal tumor before the Losties show up, why didn't he just walk up to the beach on the first day and ask Jack to perform surgery?

Well, to be fair, the Others didn't know who was on the plane until they went there (or seemingly so), so Ben wouldn't have known that Jack was a neurosurgeon until after he'd sent Ethan over there.

But once he found out, yeah- I heartily agree that it would have been a much better idea to just go over to the Lostaways with open arms, and he probably could have gotten Jack to operate then and there.

Pretty dumb to make enemies of them if he'd really known this all along.

I could see where it might have been a part of the plan to have Jack "see" the x-rays (since he did make the comment, "leave him there a little longer" after whatserface died- maybe hoping Jack would see the x-rays and "make the connection") but that theory was pretty well shot once Ben and Juliette had their little exchange about Jack seeing the x-rays.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

The entire reason why Eko became what he became was to PROTECT HIS BROTHER. This is something a few of you seem more than willing to glaze over in lieu of just declaring him some kind of monster.

How many people died or were injured/destroyed by the drug smuggling that Eko was doing?

Sure, the initial crime he did in order to protect his brother (which doesn't make it any less murder, but perhaps a bit more forgivable due to the circumstances), but all the rest- him going with the drug dealers and not only becoming one of them, but becoming their leader, I don't think you can really justify by him "protecting his brother."

There are allowances in American law at least, for extenuating circumstances (such as him committing the first murder as a child, under duress, and in defense of his brother and fellow villagers), as well as even in last episode (I think self-defense would certainly be an arguable defense against killing those men), but for all the other crimes he has committed over the years? Drug-smuggling, violence, and who knows what else he may have done as a criminal. I think you may be letting him off a little too easily for those by using his protecting his brother defense.

That being said, the whole point about Eko that we came to learn last season was that he saw coming to the island as his second chance, a chance at redemption, and all the things he did were in pursuit of that. Last episode pretty much threw that all away right before they ended his life, which seemed rather abrupt and out of character to me, which is why I am disappointed.