Lost (5/17 SPOILERS!!!)

[Taelorn76]

I think alot of what people are complaining about is what happens when the audience is "ahead" of the characters on a suspensefull show. Yes the flashback to the "Meeting" scene with Jack and the Others, only served to confim what we already know, that the Others are clinical practioners of misdirection and Pyschological Manipulation.

Most of us have guessed, that, now we know it. The Others are not supernatural supermen, they are just really clever manipulators, how is that not a good thing?

Just from my experience with co workers, most of them only watch the show, they are not scouring the web loking for hidden meanings and clues like us. Some of them are in the same place as the show and haven't peiced together some of the things and when I mention some of the topics we discuss here as well as other Lost sites, they are taken by suprise. Some hadn't picked up on the Hanso commercials or even aware that Michelle Rodriguez and "libby" were involved in DUIs.

 

[LightPhoenix]

We saw the note in the yellow light inside the tent. I think it's probably the same piece of paper.

If you're really looking, you can see Kate and Jack's names on the piece of paper before Michael burns it.

I've said it before, I'll say it again... Michael is the textbook definition of a low WIS character. After this episode, I'd probably give him a decent CHA though, considering how he managed to (almost) get everyone to go along with his plan. Of course, you could then make a case for most of the characters having an average to low WIS too for not catching it. Sayid obviously did, and I'm reasonably sure Eko knew something was wrong as well, and they're two very high WIS characters.

 

[Fast Learner]

He was never told to kill anyone. Hew was just told to free Henry and bring those four back. Killing Anna Lucia was him just taking the easy road and not thinking things through and being an a$$. As always he was to impatient and acted before coming up with another solution.

I said "was ready to sign up to kill others," which is exactly what he did. He specifically said he'd do "anything" to get Walt back, and knew full well that he was agreeing to turn four of his friends in, no problem, with no reason at all to believe they wouldn't be harmed or killed (and plenty of evidence to the contrary). When it came time to release Henry, did he carefully slip him a gun, or cold-c.o.c.k. (that's not a dirty word) Ana-Lucia, or anything at all besides cold-blooded murder? No, he shot someone in cold blood, bang. And in a panic automatically shot someone else in cold blood, bang bang. He'll do anything to get Michael back.

As long as he gets a boat. I say bs.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Best part of the episode by far:

... was when Sawyer and Jack were talking. "'Cause you're the closest thing I've got to a friend."

That was the best part.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

At the Other's camp, did Zeke look meaningfully at some tent and say something about asking "her?" Don't remember the exact quote, but it seemed to imply he was referring to a woman who's his superior. My first thought that it's going to be Rousseau as a surprise twist, but I can't see that making any sense, given her behaviour previously in the series.

I think he was referring to Miss Klugh, since she was the person who next approached Michael with her questions.

(Also, as I pointed out to my friend who thought it might be Rousseau, considering that the Others have Alex with them, and Rousseau has been searching for her since, well, forever, it wouldn't make sense. BTW, I forget- did Rousseau find out from Claire that her daughter is alive?)

One thing that I really liked about this season, and didn't really think about until this episode, is how they have been using the flashback trademark of the show to depict past occurrences on the island itself that took place either between or otherwise around the episodes we've already seen. It gives them a chance to fill in some of the gaps of things that we sometimes ask about ("how'd so and so know that they did such and such, when we didn't see them tell them about it?" Find out a couple of episodes later), as well as to maintain the show format while not always having to rely on reaching way back into the castaways' pasts to fill us in on things. Hopefully it will avoid having redundant flashback episodes like Michael's previous two episodes (which, it seemed to me, just rehashed the same story- this time, Michael's flashback actually advanced the plot and provided new information and insight).

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Okay. let me see if I've got this figured out. Michael's list is the list of (living) people who have seen abberations on the island. Jack saw his father, Kate saw the horse, Hurley saw the 'imaginary' guy from the asylum, Sawyer saw.... can't remember.

Sawyer heard the voices, as I recall. Maybe they want him because he's infected?

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I am not buying the Michael arguments. He acted completly irrational to at least three people (Jack, Hurley, and Sayid) and no one except Sayid questioned it. His convo with Jack about doing it his way was a complete flag and Jack should have seen that.

Jack did accept Sayid's argument pretty quickly, though (admittedly, the way it came across was more because of Sayid's performance in judging Henry Gale rather than because of suspicions over Michael's behavior...)

I found it pretty significant that Jack looked over at Michael to see his reaction during the burial of Ana Lucia. He may have needed Sayid to connect the dots for him, but I think he has put Michael's irrational behavior together with Sayid's warning, and suspects that Michael may have been the guy on the grassy knoll.

Regarding the boat, I don't care if it is Desmond or for Michael or something else, I agree with Crothian. You would have seen that thing miles off if it was in the ocean. Hell Locke was staring off into the ocean prior to the funeral, he didn't see it minutes before Sun did? Likely it is a gift from the others, as I doubt Locke would have missed a boat on the horizon.

Locke did get up and walk away for some mysterious reason. It seemed to be because of the funeral, but maybe he did see the boat. He's not exactly forthcoming with information.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Yes, of course, but this is only if the boat is from the Others, which is my point. They should be freaking out that they didn't notice it from afar, instead they all look toward it as if they are prepared to rush into the water after it.

They didn't really show us a whole lot of their reaction to the boat, considering that it appeared in the last two minutes (or less) of show time. You sound as if you expect them to be immediately reacting in a rational and calculating manner, based on all manner of clues that we, the audience, possess, but that they may not possess, or at least not in equal amounts. These are castaways, who have been stranded at sea for over a month and a half, and have been subject to all kinds of difficulties (including the burial of two of their number right then). I don't think most people would have the sort of immediate reaction you suggest, much less people under their circumstances.

Maybe we'll see a little more of what is actually going on in their heads next week, when the series resumes?

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Of course, you could then make a case for most of the characters having an average to low WIS too for not catching it. Sayid obviously did, and I'm reasonably sure Eko knew something was wrong as well, and they're two very high WIS characters.

Michael's got high Bluff and/or Intimidate scores. Sayid and Eko have high Sense Motive ranks.

Ultimately, the only ones that Michael really tried to use his story on, though, were Jack and Hurley. Sawyer wasn't convinced, and had to be bullied into compliance by Jack; Kate arguably may not have known the extent of the plan (only us five), or may have thought that plans might change before the date of the expedition- she didn't see Michael and Jack's meeting, and her concern was for Hurley in the second incident (and the fact that she wasn't pushing for Hurley to join is some evidence that she wasn't in favor of Michael's plan- not actively against it, but not convinced that "this is the way it must be").

 

[John Crichton]

Wow, there is alot of bitchin' and moaning in this thread over character stupidity, bad writing or even saying the producers don't know what they are doing. Hah!

We are all still watching, conversing and having fun doing it. I think they have done their jobs in spades.

Um, yeah, I liked this ep and the internet game is kewl.