D&D 5E Lost Mines of Phandelver: Straight to Cragmaw Castle?

[Werebat]

My group and I are learning 5E via the Lost Mines, which I am running. It's been fun so far.

The party dealt with the goblin camp off the Triboar trail, and made a bargain with the old goblin leader Yeemik to kill the bugbear who had been sent by King Grol. I had Yeemik actually hold his end of the bargain because it seemed stupid for him not to, given that the party delivered the bugbear's head to him and were clearly a powerful lot. The bard also convinced him to reveal the location of Cragmaw Castle (a high Persuasion roll accounted for this, as well as my feeling that Yeemik probably had no love for Grol and figured he would eventually send another bugbear -- and if the humans and demihumans who knew the location of his hideout died taking the bugbear king on, well, that was good too).

Anyway, after a brief stopover in Phandalin, during which the party accumulated several small adventure leads, they decided to take on Cragmaw Castle because the dwarf being held captive there (Gundren Rockseeker, who is a cousin of the PC dwarf wizard) should be a priority over anything else they learned about.

I'm just wondering if the party might have trouble with Cragmaw Castle at level 2. There are six PCs, which should help. What do you all think?

 

[iserith]

My group and I are learning 5E via the Lost Mines, which I am running. It's been fun so far.

The party dealt with the goblin camp off the Triboar trail, and made a bargain with the old goblin leader Yeemik to kill the bugbear who had been sent by King Grol. I had Yeemik actually hold his end of the bargain because it seemed stupid for him not to, given that the party delivered the bugbear's head to him and were clearly a powerful lot. The bard also convinced him to reveal the location of Cragmaw Castle (a high Persuasion roll accounted for this, as well as my feeling that Yeemik probably had no love for Grol and figured he would eventually send another bugbear -- and if the humans and demihumans who knew the location of his hideout died taking the bugbear king on, well, that was good too).

Anyway, after a brief stopover in Phandalin, during which the party accumulated several small adventure leads, they decided to take on Cragmaw Castle because the dwarf being held captive there (Gundren Rockseeker, who is a cousin of the PC dwarf wizard) should be a priority over anything else they learned about.

I'm just wondering if the party might have trouble with Cragmaw Castle at level 2. There are six PCs, which should help. What do you all think?

They should be okay if you do a good job of telegraphing the threats that lurk within the castle and they use strategy and tactics to defeat the Cragmaw on their own terms. It's probably a good idea to have a couple of encounters on the road to see if they can get to 3rd level or at least close to it. Another way to hedge your bets is to change the stakes of any given fight so that the PCs are captured when defeated rather than killed outright. This way you don't have to pull any punches as far as taking the fight to them, but you won't have to worry about TPKs.

 

[PnPgamer]

When we assaulted the keep, we were 3 characters of level three. Six level 2 guys might have it easier than us.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I don't think Yeemik knows were Cragmaw Castle is. It's also pointed out that Yeemik does keep his end of the bargain in the module he just tries to extort money off them as well after. Because as stated in the monster manual Goblins are mean little fools.

 

[Klataubarada]

My party of 6 STEAMROLLED the redbrand hideout and that's throwing in a CR 3 bugbear boss (glass staff escaped). We have yet to enter Cragmaw castle but so far 6 PC's seem to overpower the adventure as written.

 

[wedgeski]

The biggest danger with Cragmaw is that it's smaller than it looks, and careless PC's could have the entire place coming down on their heads just by engaging something in a room somewhere. I say this from experience. For a low-level party, this could be a real problem, but it's up to you how alert you make the occupants to what's going on around them.

 

[Nemio]

Someone made a handy Encounter adjustment tool for LMoP
It also shows the intended difficulty for a party of 4
http://haluz.org/lmop/index.php

If you check out Part 3 and put in 6 players at lvl 2 you will see that it proposes you to make it slightly more difficult even (more HP for enemies)

As @wedgeski said a lot of enemies can be drawn to a fight once it starts so that will make it more difficult.

If they take the main entrance and a fight breaks out then you will have have to face:
- 4 archer goblins from the archer posts
- 3 goblins from ruined barracks (join after 1 round)
- 4 hobgoblins from their barracks (join after 1 round)
- 8 goblins from banquet hall (join after 2 rounds?)
- More enemies from the rest of the castle? (Goblin Shrine, extra Hobgoblins, King Groll, doppelganger, etc.)

There's also a trap that the PC's might be lured into.

And this is if you don't add extra enemies to compensate for your large group of players.

According to this encounter builder that goes well above "deadly" though they will be able to fight the enemy in waves and use chokepoints.
http://kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder

 

[Werebat]

Thanks. I believe that the adventure clearly states that "the goblins" know where Cragmaw Castle is, and by extension Yeemik would as well.

The party tried approaching the main gate with stealth, but the monk rolled a natural 1 and alerted the goblin archers. The party ran for the woods nearby, taking a couple of arrow hits on the way.

Their plan now is to wait a bit and scout around the castle looking for another entrance.

 

[wedgeski]

Their plan now is to wait a bit and scout around the castle looking for another entrance.

I think I also remember something about another bugbear party turning up, and the adventure suggesting that the PC's could try to turn one group against the other? If they're now hanging around, that might become a useful option. Or I could just be misremembering...I don't have the adventure to hand.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Thanks. I believe that the adventure clearly states that "the goblins" know where Cragmaw Castle is, and by extension Yeemik would as well.

The party tried approaching the main gate with stealth, but the monk rolled a natural 1 and alerted the goblin archers. The party ran for the woods nearby, taking a couple of arrow hits on the way.

Their plan now is to wait a bit and scout around the castle looking for another entrance.

They know the general direction of it not were it is. Pretty much the most they can do is say it's that way and point. Anyway it's too late to do anything about that now anyway.