LOTR RPG Update

Got one!

mmadsen said:
Does anyone have a copy yet?

Yes, I do. Got it at GenCon, one of the last 5 or so copies available on the Friday. :)


Originally posted by Bob Aberton
Hey, lets get some discussion going here.

Well, if you wish . . . . :D

Sadly, the game (and book) is getting an initially rough reception over at the Decipher LotR RPG board. Go here to take a look.

On my first read through, I liked Decipher's CODA system quite a lot: it seemed perfect for a low-magic, heroic, slightly grittier game than, say, "default" D&D. The writing in the book does a fabulous job of emphasising the feel of playing in a Tolkinesque world -- keeping the heroism of the PCs on centre stage, so to speak, and maintaining the atmosphere and even (for lack of better phrasing) the ideological underpinnings of Middle-Earth.

After spending some time this week reading and posting to Decipher's LotR RPG boards, however, I want to go through the book again, particularly Chapter 9, which lays out the CODA system. You've guessed it, a lot of early responses are of the "broken" and "shafted" nature. Primarily, a major issue seems to be that Decipher did not playtest the rules vigorously enough . . . if at all (i.e., no playtesters are listed in the credits). I don't want to pass any "final" judgements just yet, though; I need to read the rules again and maybe give them a few "tests" of my own. For me, the more I think about the book, it does have a rushed feeling: beyond the several typos, I've found clear rules inconsistencies and/or errors between different sections, a couple blocks of missing text, and a lot of stuff that's not there but really should be if this book is to constitute the essential reference for the game (I think especially of people perhaps new to RPGs owing to the film, and of beginning GMs in particular).

I like the character generation system a lot. I know that D&D 3E has certainly increased the flexibility and customizability of character generation, but the LotR RPG system seems to encourage this to an even greater degree. You'll recognize several similarities between CODA and d20, in fact: for instance, characters choose a race and an order (i.e., class), assign ability scores (although it's a bit more involved ;) ), then choose skills and special "order abilities" that work very much like feats; there is "multiclassing," which basically means that a character chooses to advance in another order at some point. The key for customizability is that CODA is essentially a skill based system (i.e., melee combat relies upon your Armed Combat skill modifier with a specific weapon group and weapon, rolled against the opponent's defense score, and so on). When you "level up," which entails earning 1000 xp and then spending 5 advancement "picks," you really have to consider carefully how to improve your character. A Warrior, for instance, may not necessarily improve his Armed Combat skill at every advancement, as there are order abilities to choose and enhance, attributes to improve, "elite orders" (i.e., prestige classes) to qualify for, and more. So, one Warrior will look quite distinct from another, depending on a number of factors decided upon during advancement picks.

The CODA system overall is very easy to pick up and use almost immediately, particularly if one is familiar with d20, as several basic mechanics are similar.

I can't comment too much on the magic system, as I've yet to try it out, but the book looks to have captured the feel and mystery of magic in Tolkien's Middle-Earth. Perhaps my favourite section in the entire book involves a discussion of Middle-Earth's "subtle magic," which can work in the GM's hands much like fate or coincidence. For example, the PCs will arrive to a battle just at the right time in order to save the day . . . . As I mentioned above, the writing captures and reinforces wonderfully the atmosphere of playing in a Middle-Earth setting.

Hmm, that's likely enough for now! In summary, many first reactions (over at the Decipher boards) are sceptical and even outright disappointed; however, I think there's much of value in the book and the game, though some extensive errata may be needed in order actually to "fix" the game. We'll see, I guess.

Mike Mearls ran some LotR RPG demos at GenCon, so maybe he could stop in with his thoughts on the game -- if he sees this thread. Hey there, Mike! :)
 

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Yes, I have also been perusing the Decipher boards and reading the first impressions of the book. Although I don't own it yet (damn Decipher and their vague release schedule!!) I don't think any of the problems mentioned will be all that difficult to fix. I am a tad dissappointed at the fact that these kinds of flaws exist in the system, you'd think that Decipher would learn a thing or two from past systems, but I have no problem using house rules if the system can be "red-lined" out of control.

From what I've heard other people mention, the main problem seems to be the ease with which one can raise their Melee/Ranged Combat skill to ridiculous (for this system, at any rate) levels very early. At least one person on the Decipher boards has proposed a solution to this problem and online errata should fix the rest. I still say that this system is the hope for those wanting to get away from the High-Octane SuperFantasy gaming experience of D&D to something a little more suble yet just as profound and wonderful an experience.
 


I'm with Scribe Ineti; I could make neither heads not tails out of Decipher's boards. What little I could glean seemed to be pretty much the same kind of complaints that we've seen all the time since 3e was released - typos, "broken" rules, possibilities for powergaming tendencies, etc. Other than that, it seems more like a big, running conversation going on that is tough to interrupt - sort of like an even bigger version of some of the monster threads that get going on these boards,
 

So, in the opinion of anyone who has a copy,

Is it (the book) worth the money? And how much is it anyway?

And how bad are the errors? Insurmountable obstacle or minor annoyance?
 


Further thougths . . .

ColonelHardisson[/i]: [b]I'm with Scribe Ineti; I could make neither heads not tails out of Decipher's boards.[/b][/quote] Yeah said:
So, in the opinion of anyone who has a copy,

Is it (the book) worth the money? And how much is it anyway?

And how bad are the errors? Insurmountable obstacle or minor annoyance?

The book costs $39.95 US. Frankly, now that I've spent time with it, I think the price is really quite steep. (My purchase was made at GenCon, an environment in which one tends not to consider some purchases carefully. :D ) I'm comparing it to the 3E core books, the recently released EverQuest: The Player's Handbook (about 400 pages, full colour, for $29.95 US), and Oathbound from Bastion Press (about 350 pages, full colour, for $39.95 US). The LotR RPG Core Book has 304 pages, the paper is very high quality, and it's full of pics from the films -- but it's meant to be the essential "core" reference for the entire game, so it more and more feels a bit "thin" on content from my perspective. I want to believe that my purchase was "worth it," but if we get a "revised edition" in, say, 6 months, I'll feel a bit gipped. Decipher has planned several supplements for the LotR RPG, too, so we'll see.

With regard to the errors, at this point it's hard for me personally to say -- I can't immediately "redline" or "break" a system like others can. In terms of the typos, well, that's just standard stuff, really. The two bits of missing text that I found need errata, I suppose, though I believe that these oversights do not cripple the game in any severe way. In terms of the system? Hmm . . .

Currently, impressions (over at Decipher) are that even early on rolling the dice for attacking soon becomes almost unnecessary with the bonuses that characters (primarily Warriors) can accumulate. I would temper this by suggesting that defensive combat actions such as dodge and parry/block might counteract some of this; moreover, armour provides damage reduction, and in the CODA system damage must work through several "Wound Levels" until an opponent is killed. Oh, and the rules for mass unit combat are apparently "unplayable" -- i.e., "broken." The situation does more and more look like Decipher perhaps did not playtest everything thoroughly enough.

In the end, I'd say "minor annoyances, but YMMV." :)

I do like the game and the book quite a bit, despite their apparent deficiencies. With some tweaking, the CODA rules really do offer an elegant system for a more low-powered fantasy game.
 
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FDP Mike:

I don't suppose you would care to build a starting Warrior character for us using the system? I'd like to see just how "bad" the situation is regarding min/maxing combat ability. If it is indeed a problem, I'd like to start thinking about ways to fix it ASAP. There is no telling when my FLGS will get the book in, anywhere from a week to a month so I'm stuck with what little info I can glean from others.
 

I'll see . . .

Apok said:
I don't suppose you would care to build a starting Warrior character for us using the system? I'd like to see just how "bad" the situation is regarding min/maxing combat ability.

(Just Mike is fine, by the way. ;) )

I'll see about this -- perhaps some time tomorrow (Saturday, from where I am in the world right now).

In the end, I don't think the situation is really all that "bad." Right now, it's just a few people who are giving the LotR RPG a rough ride, and the examples of how combat is "broken" are very extreme examples (i.e., min/max and munchkin all the way). Also, there's some "smoke and mirrors" stuff going on, with a few of the "broken" criticisms somewhat taking certain elements of the system out of context. Also, some folks over at the Decipher boards are sceptics of the "2d6" type of system, which predisposes them to find problems in the game.

I will say that some errata and clarifications will certainly be needed, as currently the system can be abused by players quite easily. The GM will need to assert a bit of control over how characters advance; the Core Book, in fact, does at least encourage that character advancement be tied to story reasons (i.e., the character's recent actions and experiences).

Well, I'll try to put something together for tomorrow, then.
 

Re: Further thougths . . .

FDP Mike said:

Yeah, Decipher's boards do take a little, um, getting used to. New topics fall off the first page quickly, it seems, as they're not placed back on top when new replies are added. I'm not sure why Decipher doesn't invest EZboard or UBB or vB . . . .
I really don't want to go back there.

I was hoping that TrekRPGNet webmaster Don Mappin would set up a LOTRRPGNet web site and forum. I guess he can't ... yet.


My impression is that a lot of folks have waited a long time for this game, had really high hopes, and are now experiencing some disappointment. It's unfortunate, really. (Then again, the book does not officially release until around the end of August. Thus, much of the discussion occurring at the Decipher boards these days is by the "die hard" fans. The "general public" is still to come.)
Bah. Anyone who wait for a product have got to utilize their time more fruitfully on this earth, IMNSHO.

If it comes out, then it comes out. Thankfully, it will be out around the time of the video release (and my next paycheck).


The book costs $39.95 US. Frankly, now that I've spent time with it, I think the price is really quite steep. (My purchase was made at GenCon, an environment in which one tends not to consider some purchases carefully. :D ) I'm comparing it to the 3E core books, the recently released EverQuest: The Player's Handbook (about 400 pages, full colour, for $29.95 US), and Oathbound from Bastion Press (about 350 pages, full colour, for $39.95 US). The LotR RPG Core Book has 304 pages, the paper is very high quality, and it's full of pics from the films -- but it's meant to be the essential "core" reference for the entire game, so it more and more feels a bit "thin" on content from my perspective. I want to believe that my purchase was "worth it," but if we get a "revised edition" in, say, 6 months, I'll feel a bit gipped. Decipher has planned several supplements for the LotR RPG, too, so we'll see.
Does the number of page count really matter when it comes to a core rulebook? Or after having read the core rulebook, is it missing something essential?


I do like the game and the book quite a bit, despite their apparent deficiencies. With some tweaking, the CODA rules really do offer an elegant system for a more low-powered fantasy game.
I'll pick it up anyway.
 

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