LOTR:TT:EE Appendices Disc 3. Discussion of Tolkein

[Pants]

Actually the appearance of elves in Helms Deep bothered me too .. not per se, but the fact bothered to me how they conducted themselves: they came in a close order formation, really parade troops. I thought elves were more aloof, and not that militaristic or how should I put it.

Damn show-offs

If they were Noldor Elves (and I'm assuming they were since they were from Rivendell, supposedly) then the whole 'orderly and militaristic' would fit them.

How can anyone think The Fellowship is a tedious book? It's easily the best book of the series! Now the Two Towers has a few moments of boredom when Sam & Frodo take center stage, but they aren't long lasting.

I agree completely. I love Fellowship (probably even more than RotK), but tTT always seemed like the weakest of the trilogy to me.

 

[DMScott]

And what's wrong with that? I'm sure there's more than enough room in the literary world for two great books like LOTR and Ulysses.

You should probably ask the aforementioned literary snobs who'd prefer you skip LOTR and read only their favourites, like Ulysses. I myself have no problem with people picking and choosing what they like.

 

[KChagga]

I just got done watching the 3rd disc in the set. That first section did seem like a crapfest. I got the impression that if they all thought it was this poorly written why did they choose to make a movie out of it. I feel it was more of an editing problem. They somehow managed to take almost all of the nasty quotes and paste them together in that featurette. It is quite obvious from the rest of the disc the love and devotion all of these people have toward the story.

 

[Squire James]

If they were Noldor Elves (and I'm assuming they were since they were from Rivendell, supposedly) then the whole 'orderly and militaristic' would fit them.

Their leader, Haldir, was the same Elf that guided the Fellowship into Galadriel's territory, so he's more likely an Sindar than a Noldor. Galadriel herself was the oldest Noldor still on Middle-Earth, though, so she might have whipped all those tree-huggers into shape at some time or another...

 

[Orius]

Actually the appearance of elves in Helms Deep bothered me too .. not per se, but the fact bothered to me how they conducted themselves: they came in a close order formation, really parade troops. I thought elves were more aloof, and not that militaristic or how should I put it.

Damn show-offs

That sort of thing, coupled with Gimli's silly buffoonery, to me seemed to indicated that PJ is a HUGE elf fanboy.

 

[Dark Jezter]

That sort of thing, coupled with Gimli's silly buffoonery, to me seemed to indicated that PJ is a HUGE elf fanboy.

I don't know if it's so much Peter Jackson as Tolkien himself. Reading the novels, you begin to observe a pattern: Elves are better than humans, dwarves, and hobbits at everything they do. Elves are wise, elves are fair to look upon, an elf lord can frighten even the Nazgul, elf liquor can stop people from freezing to death, Legolas can shoot down a flying Nazgul in the dark of night, elf cloaks provide better concealment than a ghille suit, etc.

I'd say that Tolkien is the elf fanboy, and Peter Jackson is just building upon Tolkien's preferences regarding fantasy races.

 

[Orius]

I don't know if it's so much Peter Jackson as Tolkien himself. Reading the novels, you begin to observe a pattern: Elves are better than humans, dwarves, and hobbits at everything they do. Elves are wise, elves are fair to look upon, an elf lord can frighten even the Nazgul, elf liquor can stop people from freezing to death, Legolas can shoot down a flying Nazgul in the dark of night, elf cloaks provide better concealment than a ghille suit, etc.

I'd say that Tolkien is the elf fanboy, and Peter Jackson is just building upon Tolkien's preferences regarding fantasy races.

Maybe, but there is a sort of magic, or craft to much of what the elves do in Tolkien's world that makes them better. The Noldor learned what they knew from the Valar, and the fact that many of them were born in Valinor made them mightier. The Sindar had the advantage of having one of the Maiar as their queen, so they got similar benefits, though not as great as the Noldor. The Edain first learned from the elves in the First Age, and then later where taught by Eonwe, another Maia, while they waited for Numenor to be built. However, the arts of the Dunedain at the time of the LotR have diminished, while the elves are fading.

I stand by my opinion that PJ is an elf fanboy.

 

[Dark Jezter]

Maybe, but there is a sort of magic, or craft to much of what the elves do in Tolkien's world that makes them better. The Noldor learned what they knew from the Valar, and the fact that many of them were born in Valinor made them mightier. The Sindar had the advantage of having one of the Maiar as their queen, so they got similar benefits, though not as great as the Noldor. The Edain first learned from the elves in the First Age, and then later where taught by Eonwe, another Maia, while they waited for Numenor to be built. However, the arts of the Dunedain at the time of the LotR have diminished, while the elves are fading.

I stand by my opinion that PJ is an elf fanboy.

I dunno... can you imagine having Tolkien as a DM?

Tolkien: "You have now crossed into the woods of Lothlorien. Aragorn, you know from your previous adventures that this is the most powerful elven stronghold in Middle-Earth."
Pippen's player: "Elves again, eh? No surprise there."
Tolkien: "What's that supposed to mean?"
Boromir's player: "Well John, me and a few of the other guys have been talking, and we think that you are entirely too fascinated with elves. The hobbits encounter elves in the woods near the Shire, the hobbits were rescued from the Nazgul by a powerful elf lord, you gave Aragon an elf princess NPC as a love interest, we spent two months hanging out in an elven city, and so on."
Legolas' Player: "What's wrong with elves?"
Gimli's player: "Boromir's right. When we reached Moria, I was excited that we might be visiting a dwarf city, but nooooo... all of the dwarves there were long dead. And we're right outside another elf city."
Boromir's Player: "I guess that what I'm trying to say is... elves suck."
Tolkien: *Levels a glare at Boromir's player*
Pippen's Player: *to Merry's player* "Uh-oh... I have a feeling that Boromir ain't gonna be with us much longer."
Merry's Player: *To Pippen* "Yeah, that's the same look that John gave Gandalf when he complained about the untranslated elven poetry."