Desdichado
Hero
I find this line very curious. Tell me, to you, what is the purpose of the game?Gellion said:Personally I think it defeats the purpose of the game to play a low fantasy game, but that is just my opinion.
Low Fantasy
- Thread starter Gellion
- Start date
Re: Re: Low Fantasy
Im just saying that i enjoy a high fantasy game the most if you like low fantasy then more power to ya.
Tsyr said:
Silly me, I thought the purpose of the game was to have fun...
I basicly echo the thoughts of Eric in his first post, and Mercule in the next.
Im just saying that i enjoy a high fantasy game the most if you like low fantasy then more power to ya.
Re: Re: Re: Low Fantasy
Numion is enlightened!
Slayers lyric post of the week #16, slightly overdue:
KUJIKENAI KARA!
Megumi Hayashibara
Masami Okui
Uruwashiki STYLISH monku no tsukeyou mo nai wa
Gokujou no SMILING tsubura na hitomi wa tsumi ka na
Doji na bamen datte ururu to kawashitara
Dare mo ga ichikoro de yurushitaku natchau watashi no bitoku
Hokorashiki MY LIFE itsu mo pojitibu ga porishii
Dare yori mo MINDFUL megumareta kono sainou de
Yoyuu no mainichi wo sugosu sono tsuite ni
Warui yatsu wo katazukete yuku watshi wa ochame na hiroin
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Ashita e tsukisusunde yuku
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Mune ga kibou de afureru
Yuzurenai nagasenai owarenai yume e to
Neraisadamereba kitto
PEACE OF MIND, TO BE
Kaguwashiki DELICIOUS utsukushii hodo no shokuyoku
Saikou no DIAMOND ai yori okane ga genjitsu
Bishoujo da kara tte suriyotte kita nara
Itadaku no wa watashi no hou yo, kakugo shite nogashite agenai
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Doko e mo tsukisusunde yuku
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Kono mi wo kaketaku naru no
Yuzurenai nagasenai owarenai yume e to
Neraisadamereba kitto
PEACE OF MIND, TO BE
Numion said:
The purpose of the D&D is to flip out and fireball people
Numion is enlightened!
Slayers lyric post of the week #16, slightly overdue:
KUJIKENAI KARA!
Megumi Hayashibara
Masami Okui
Uruwashiki STYLISH monku no tsukeyou mo nai wa
Gokujou no SMILING tsubura na hitomi wa tsumi ka na
Doji na bamen datte ururu to kawashitara
Dare mo ga ichikoro de yurushitaku natchau watashi no bitoku
Hokorashiki MY LIFE itsu mo pojitibu ga porishii
Dare yori mo MINDFUL megumareta kono sainou de
Yoyuu no mainichi wo sugosu sono tsuite ni
Warui yatsu wo katazukete yuku watshi wa ochame na hiroin
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Ashita e tsukisusunde yuku
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Mune ga kibou de afureru
Yuzurenai nagasenai owarenai yume e to
Neraisadamereba kitto
PEACE OF MIND, TO BE
Kaguwashiki DELICIOUS utsukushii hodo no shokuyoku
Saikou no DIAMOND ai yori okane ga genjitsu
Bishoujo da kara tte suriyotte kita nara
Itadaku no wa watashi no hou yo, kakugo shite nogashite agenai
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Doko e mo tsukisusunde yuku
Kujikenai kara! MY HEART
Kono mi wo kaketaku naru no
Yuzurenai nagasenai owarenai yume e to
Neraisadamereba kitto
PEACE OF MIND, TO BE
Henry
Autoexreginated
It's ironic that Lord of the Rings could be considered low fantasy by this definition, because in Tolkien's view, only the One ring and a few other items could be considered magical. Most Elven Items were considered "really, really good" stuff, and not magical in the sense of invested with magic power. It was just superior to human stuff. Notable exceptions include Nairsil and Sting, but exclude elven trail bread, elvish cloaks, elvish rope, mithril forged items, etc.
I think there needs to be better terminology used here. "low fantasy" should refer to a more grim and gritty take on the setting's outlook - the "crude, nasty, brutish, and short" that everyone likes to describe as life for a medieval peasant.
"high fantasy" needs to be about heroes, unlikely or otherwise, who perform deeds that are unfettered by worries of a commoner - Frodo and Aragorn are not worried about performing stable jobs for cash, and they aren't worried about scoring with the local trollop.
low-magic and high-magic should be defined as how much magic is available to the common man, and by extension, to the PC's, who are going to get it from the common man one way or the other. Prevalence is what we speak of here. LOTR is by this definition low-magic but high fantasy, because it takes true heroism to get your hands on REAL magic.
In most low-fantasy games I ever played in when younger, characters were scrimping for copper pieces in dung mines while clearing out sewers infested with rats, and scraping the slime off of the rusty dagger they found, which made for your backup weapon. For obvious reasons, I did not enjoy them for more than a couple of sessions, before I wanted to get back to risking my character for the pile of treasure that the trolls kept under the bridge.
I'm sure that low-magic, low-fantasy games are fun, but not to my taste. Gimme high fantasy, and low magic, or high magic and fantasy, but keep me outta that low-fantasy stuff, and I'm happy. I live low fantasy every year.
I think there needs to be better terminology used here. "low fantasy" should refer to a more grim and gritty take on the setting's outlook - the "crude, nasty, brutish, and short" that everyone likes to describe as life for a medieval peasant.
"high fantasy" needs to be about heroes, unlikely or otherwise, who perform deeds that are unfettered by worries of a commoner - Frodo and Aragorn are not worried about performing stable jobs for cash, and they aren't worried about scoring with the local trollop.
low-magic and high-magic should be defined as how much magic is available to the common man, and by extension, to the PC's, who are going to get it from the common man one way or the other. Prevalence is what we speak of here. LOTR is by this definition low-magic but high fantasy, because it takes true heroism to get your hands on REAL magic.
In most low-fantasy games I ever played in when younger, characters were scrimping for copper pieces in dung mines while clearing out sewers infested with rats, and scraping the slime off of the rusty dagger they found, which made for your backup weapon.
For obvious reasons, I did not enjoy them for more than a couple of sessions, before I wanted to get back to risking my character for the pile of treasure that the trolls kept under the bridge.I'm sure that low-magic, low-fantasy games are fun, but not to my taste. Gimme high fantasy, and low magic, or high magic and fantasy, but keep me outta that low-fantasy stuff, and I'm happy. I live low fantasy every year.
My high fantasy thread didnt get this many replies people here are clearly biased.
Dont attack me just beacuse i prefer high fantasy games, as i said earlier if you like low fantasy more power to ya.
I just dont like it when you have to do an hour ritual to just cast <I>Magic Missile</I>, and then have to roll a spellcraft check, and if you fail take 2d4 permanent con damage, and lose the ability to cast spells for the rest of your life.
Dont attack me just beacuse i prefer high fantasy games, as i said earlier if you like low fantasy more power to ya.
I just dont like it when you have to do an hour ritual to just cast <I>Magic Missile</I>, and then have to roll a spellcraft check, and if you fail take 2d4 permanent con damage, and lose the ability to cast spells for the rest of your life.
kengar
First Post
I think Henry is right in that there seems to be a fairly wide spectrum of ideas on what exactly "low" means in this context.
If "Low Fantasy" is the sense that Low = "Base", I would say then it's being compared to a "High" that ="Epic" or "Heroic." Protagonists are larger than life. Blessed by gods, chosen ones, etc. "High Fantasy" adventures in this context are things like save the world, win the kingdom, etc. "Base" fantasy would be where the characters are less special or heroic. The world hasn't been awaiting their birth for centuries, they aren't all that much tougher (initially) than the people around them, etc. The setting can be highly magical, bizarre, alien, etc. but the "heroes" have no special place in it. "Gritty" is a term often associated with this kind of world. Though it isn't a requirement.
If "Low" fantasy = "Less" fantastic. Then you're talking about a world that is more mundane, possibly less magical. Less magic might mean there is very little if any magic in the world, or it might mean that it's very rare, but can occur in very powerful and mysterious forms.
To my mind, a world like WHFRP's "Old World" is Low Fantasy in the first sense. It is gritty and dark and grim. The characters struggle to survive to a degree. While the characters may act nobly, the world isn't really set up to accomodate "heroes" in the whole Great Destiny sense. Not all "Base" fantasy settings are dark and grim, but it's pretty common. Magic is all around in the Old World; everyone knows there are wizards and gods and monsters. Many people fear them and hate them, but they know they exist. It's not Low magic, it's a world where magic isn't widely accepted.
At the other end of this scale might be a world like Middle Earth. Magic is subtle, but exists. While it's true what Henry says about how unusual magic items are, magic itself is fairly easy to find and is readily accepted as real. Bilbo gives away magical dwarven toys at his 111th birthday. Dwarf-doors are sealed with spells. Old Man Willow shifts the paths of the Old Forest to lure unwary travelers. Giant Spiders, Goblins, Ents, Trolls, etc. Magic/fantasy is everywhere in Middle Earth. The protagonists of these stories are heroic and noble, not only in the manner but in the sense that they have destinies to fulfill and are less concerned with mundane issues (the don't loot the dead orcs and sell the gear in town, etc.
). There are forces of fate and destiny at work in their lives and they fight for the forces of GOOD against absolute EVIL. Very epic, very heroic. There aren't +5 Flaming Holy Avengers, Cure Critical Wound spells and magic users don't lob fireballs, but it's a very magical world.
For the second kind of "Low Fantasy," the world would be a place much like ours in the sense that very little wouldn't be "normal." Magic would have no place in day-to-day living. Magic items, spells, monsters. These things are legendary, but not to be believed in or counted upon. Many people might live their whole life without seeing a single example of magic.
A High -or "Heavy"- Fantasy world in this sense is one where magic/fantasy is completely integrated into the daily life. Most classic D&D settings fit this bill: Elves & Dwarves wandering around town, entire races of dragons, magic swords & healing potions for sale, wizard colleges, etc. etc.
It is possible to combine these elements in different combinations:
A "Base-Heavy" world might be a world like WHFRP
A "Heroic-Low" world could be Middle Earth
A "Heroic-Heavy" setting? Perhaps Forgotten Realms (though how "heroic" the PCs act and their adventures are can vary )
A "Base-Low" world? hmmm. Perhaps the old Conans? I'm not that familiar with those stories, though, so I could be wrong on that one.
If "Low Fantasy" is the sense that Low = "Base", I would say then it's being compared to a "High" that ="Epic" or "Heroic." Protagonists are larger than life. Blessed by gods, chosen ones, etc. "High Fantasy" adventures in this context are things like save the world, win the kingdom, etc. "Base" fantasy would be where the characters are less special or heroic. The world hasn't been awaiting their birth for centuries, they aren't all that much tougher (initially) than the people around them, etc. The setting can be highly magical, bizarre, alien, etc. but the "heroes" have no special place in it. "Gritty" is a term often associated with this kind of world. Though it isn't a requirement.
If "Low" fantasy = "Less" fantastic. Then you're talking about a world that is more mundane, possibly less magical. Less magic might mean there is very little if any magic in the world, or it might mean that it's very rare, but can occur in very powerful and mysterious forms.
To my mind, a world like WHFRP's "Old World" is Low Fantasy in the first sense. It is gritty and dark and grim. The characters struggle to survive to a degree. While the characters may act nobly, the world isn't really set up to accomodate "heroes" in the whole Great Destiny sense. Not all "Base" fantasy settings are dark and grim, but it's pretty common. Magic is all around in the Old World; everyone knows there are wizards and gods and monsters. Many people fear them and hate them, but they know they exist. It's not Low magic, it's a world where magic isn't widely accepted.
At the other end of this scale might be a world like Middle Earth. Magic is subtle, but exists. While it's true what Henry says about how unusual magic items are, magic itself is fairly easy to find and is readily accepted as real. Bilbo gives away magical dwarven toys at his 111th birthday. Dwarf-doors are sealed with spells. Old Man Willow shifts the paths of the Old Forest to lure unwary travelers. Giant Spiders, Goblins, Ents, Trolls, etc. Magic/fantasy is everywhere in Middle Earth. The protagonists of these stories are heroic and noble, not only in the manner but in the sense that they have destinies to fulfill and are less concerned with mundane issues (the don't loot the dead orcs and sell the gear in town, etc.
). There are forces of fate and destiny at work in their lives and they fight for the forces of GOOD against absolute EVIL. Very epic, very heroic. There aren't +5 Flaming Holy Avengers, Cure Critical Wound spells and magic users don't lob fireballs, but it's a very magical world.For the second kind of "Low Fantasy," the world would be a place much like ours in the sense that very little wouldn't be "normal." Magic would have no place in day-to-day living. Magic items, spells, monsters. These things are legendary, but not to be believed in or counted upon. Many people might live their whole life without seeing a single example of magic.
A High -or "Heavy"- Fantasy world in this sense is one where magic/fantasy is completely integrated into the daily life. Most classic D&D settings fit this bill: Elves & Dwarves wandering around town, entire races of dragons, magic swords & healing potions for sale, wizard colleges, etc. etc.
It is possible to combine these elements in different combinations:
A "Base-Heavy" world might be a world like WHFRP
A "Heroic-Low" world could be Middle Earth
A "Heroic-Heavy" setting? Perhaps Forgotten Realms (though how "heroic" the PCs act and their adventures are can vary
)A "Base-Low" world? hmmm. Perhaps the old Conans? I'm not that familiar with those stories, though, so I could be wrong on that one.
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